Modesty in Medical Settings

[Biblical Modesty]

I wanted to encourage everyone to watch this video, Modesty in Medical Settings From a Biblical Perspective at

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This is an issue that is rarely discussed with Christians. This video has so much important information including the dark history of gynecology that most Christians do not know about. We need to share this video with as many Christians as possible. Our society has taught us to accept that pretty much anything in name of medicine is okay.

 

[Alcott]

Not much time to observe or comment now, but I watched a small portion of video, and I think this is based which is not in scripture as the woman indicates. If there is any explicit passage which says, as she claims, that a woman must not reveal certain parts of her body to any man for any reason, except to
her husband, then where is it located?
I agree, though, with the concept that western civilization has placed medical doctors in a position they don't belong, in that *anything* they say goes without question. I recall years ago in a class we were talking about a rabbi being the "most respected" member of the Jewish community, while 'we' give such an honor to MD's, as the ones above being offended. And no, medicine is a science, not an unquestionable authority.

One more quick word-- I also don't accept the extreme position presented that the moral laws are absolute. Jesus healed on the Sabbath and defended his disciples for picking grain on that day, and he referred to David and his men eating the shewbread in their hunger. And God himself ordered Hoses to marry a harlot.

 

[Benjamin]

This is an issue that is rarely discussed with Christians.

I hear these kinds of issues brought on occasion and rarely shy away trying to give a biblical Christian answer.

As per your argument you speak of “God’s” absolutes then in effect jump directly into “begging the question”, meaning to derive the conclusion that nudity in front of the opposite sex of a “mature person” is always wrong. IOWs you base this conclusion on “your” biblical interpretations of “absolutes” as if there is no counter to your argument. For instance, from my biblical perspective you seem to fail to take into consideration the intents of the heart and not the actual action that are at issue. Jesus said if you so much as looked upon the opposite sex in lust that you are already an adulterer, which is where the intent of the heart comes in because otherwise we would all have to wear blindfolds and ear plugs in public. Perhaps you have decided to draw the line at professional male gynecologist but I’ve heard others that draw the line at going to a public beach or swimming pool or even a grocery store for that matter and look that this as tempting some kind of uncontrollable “absolute of sexual sin”.

I would have you know, seeing your video is about 1 ½ hours long that I stopped it at just over 1 minute to address your opening argument. My opening reply is associated with having a background of having worked in the medical field doing physical therapy and daily performing manual soft tissue manipulation on breast cancer patients which was of great benefit to them and brought a lot of pain relief many times correcting years of discomfort. Although it could be awkward at times the intent of my heart, as a therapeutic specialist, was to focus on helping them get better. IOWs I was not thinking as man with uncontrollable lusts but rather as a healer. I will try to listen to more of the video later but just wanted jump in for now to address what I see from a philosophical perspective as a fallacious start to your argument. I suspect you are coming from a view similar to those who can barely go into grocery store for fear of lustful thoughts but clearly you are broad brushing the intent of MY heart as always wrong along within your accusations of biblical sexual sins which are based on your interpretations so this is a matter I may address further. I suspect you posted here to get other opinions and not just to lecture?

 

[Deacon]

I couldn’t watch much of the vid, it struck me as odd and unrealistic.
If modesty was of primary importance why would God allow infants to be born naked?

I remember my grandmother in her last weeks. The family took turns caring for her. I slept in a bed next to hers at night, helping her use the portable commode.
I helped her in the shower. Helped her get dressed. Modesty was laid aside out of necessity. It was a special time.

The Bible tells us that King David in his last days used a young woman to lay beside him to try and warm him. Not much modesty there.

I work in the medical field. Lots of nudity in a hospital setting! Most people look better with their clothes on.

It is common for patients to hide symptoms out of fear. That’s why the same question is asked a number of times by different medical people.
There are times when out of modesty a person hides a physical malady.
It’s almost like they say to themselves, “if no one knows it’s not a problem”.
Then suddenly what was once a small, easily handled problem become a huge life-threatening crisis.

The Bible is not a rule book for knowing when nudity is proper. Use wisdom to discern times when it is proper to lay modesty aside.

Rob

 

[Scarlett O.]

I've had two regular gynecologists - my local one,male, and the distant one who did my hysterectomy and pre/post exams, female.

I find that this type of thinking condescending to women, makes pigs out of men, and is hogwash, and irritating. I don't expect the new member to be here long.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

My gut reaction is to ask a question.

If male ob/gyns are wrong, are you encouraging the girls and young ladies you know to go into that field to fill the need?
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[Jerome]

I find that this type of thinking condescending to women, makes pigs out of men, and is hogwash, and irritating. I don't expect the new member to be here long.

One of the bugaboos of banned poster 'sanderson1769' and his East German wife:

The Baptist Board • Are male gynecologists acceptable for Christians? • Pastor Steven L Anderson

Steven Anderson Family Blog • Why I don't trust doctors • Mrs. Zsuzsanna Anderson

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Biblical Modesty would do well to know that sanderson1768 didn't get banned for his content. He got banned for not interacting on the multiple threads he started.

 

[ChurchofChristguy]

This is ridiculous. There are pervs in every corner of society - OB/GYNs included. But an OB/GYN spends most of his/her working day examining female plumbing parts - I highly doubt it is arousing. Nor is it likely that a woman is aroused by a doctor poking around down there.

Now if your OB/GYN is asking you to get on all fours and bark like a dog, there might be a discussion here.

 

[Scarlett O.]

One of the bugaboos of banned poster 'sanderson1769' and his East German wife:

The Baptist Board • Are male gynecologists acceptable for Christians? • Pastor Steven L Anderson

Steven Anderson Family Blog • Why I don't trust doctors • Mrs. Zsuzsanna Anderson

Oh, yes. How well I remember. I was part that discussion then. I looked earlier on youtube to see if I could connect this video to his church and therefore to him, but I couldn't find it there.

 

[Salty]

At the VA, I had a female Doctor - Squire - when can I come to confession?

 

[HankD]

At the VA, I had a female Doctor - Squire - when can I come to confession?

Ya, MeToo.

This tread is silly.

 

[Benjamin]

I find the accusations in that video somewhat offensive and would love to address some of them but I’d be surprised if Biblical Modesty would come back and defend her position. I’ll say this, from a clinical perspective if I caught on to a patient having such a mindset, and I probably would, I’d take extra precautions to protect myself from false accusations from such a person.

I’ll also say, treating medical procedures as if they cannot be other than sexual actions might be taken to be founded on depraved thoughts and the consideration of such a mindset reminded me of one of my old memory verses.

Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

 

[rlvaughn]

...seeing your video is about 1 ½ hours long...

This is problematic for me as well. I don't have time to sit and listen to this for an hour and a half. Because of that, I looked at the site to see what they have in print (and perhaps in smaller doses), which works better for me. Are Male Gynecologists Biblical is about the first topic on the video.

I saw in the video there are parts I will not agree with, but I don't dismiss it all out of hand. There are some valid points to be made in the area of medical modesty, and doctors do molest patients. One thing that might need to be considered, though, is that a same-sex doctor might also have same-sex sexual preferences -- so that prerequisite doesn't always solve the problem!

Modesty was laid aside out of necessity. It was a special time.

I agree. I'd see this somewhat like Jesus healing on the Sabbath, while pointing out even the nay-sayers took care of necessities on that day. We just spent several years caring for an elderly mother. We could not afford to hire female sitters to work round the clock (though the sitters we did hire were female), and sons had pitch in and do their part. We maintained modesty as much as practical, but sometimes only so much is possible.

 

[HankD]

I saw in the video there are parts I will not agree with, but I don't dismiss it all out of hand. There are some valid points to be made in the area of medical modesty, and doctors do molest patients.

But Rivaughn so do pastors, deacons, plumbers, carpenters, etc. commit abuse.

Hmm wonder about the rate of offense of doctors compared to other professions.

 

[BroTom64]

As a pastor, there have been times I would have liked for members to have more modesty. Especially when the asked for prayer concerning personal health issues right before I am heading to the Sanctuary for Worship!
I am glad and willing to pray for anyone's concerns, but sometimes I have been given too much info!

 

[rlvaughn]

But Rlvaughn so do pastors, deacons, plumbers, carpenters, etc. commit abuse.

Hmm wonder about the rate of offense of doctors compared to other professions.

I agree with the first, and have no idea about the second. But since this thread isn't about pastors, deacons, plumbers, and carpenters, I only spoke to what it is about. Not to dismiss the others, but on this topic, at least at times the doctor/patient relationship can give access that can really go south. For example, I read an article from last year that said USA Gymnastics doctor Lawrence Nassar abused at least 265 women and girls.

Nevertheless, I don't suspect that a majority of doctors go into the field in order to view nudity or molest members of the opposite sex.

 

[Salty]

Ya, MeToo."
This tread is silly.

I may not go as far as to say it is silly - because some people have a valid conviction about this.

The question arises - is this actually her conviction, based on her study of the Bible - or is it "MY pastor said so -so it must be true."

But if Biblical modesty is serious about this -then she should be back here answering some of these questions.

Dont be surprised if she gets banned for not doing so.
BTW, this is the only post she has made.

 

[HankD]

I may not go as far as to say it is silly - because some people have a valid conviction about this.
.

Right, I should have said "it is silly to me"' though I am a male and don't have to endure the female defensive.

 

[Biblical Modesty]

I am sad by many of the defiant responses to this video. I am not surprised by the negative responses by those who work in the medical field because the medical industry has a lot of power in our society. There have been numerous medical professionals who were very uncomfortable with doing procedures on the opposite sex when they first started medical or nursing schools, but then got desensitized. See 1:04:12 mark of the video about this part about two nursing students who became desensitized.

It is important for you to view the full video like you are listening to a sermon. It has so much important information that most you do not know about. Yes, it is a long video, but there are so many facts to cover. I wanted to mention some important points that most of you most likely missed because you all did not watch all of the video.

1.) The main speaker (the older woman) in this video has a powerful testimony. She was blinded by the medical industry and culture that male gynecologists were okay for a number of years. She actually used to go to a male gynecologist herself. There were no female gynecologists around when she first needed a gynecologist in the 1970s. She gave her testimony around 1:09:26 mark of the video. A testimony of an independent Baptist pastor is included in this video. He had to pray for about a week when he was first approached about the issue of male gynecologists. It was not easy for him because his wife went to a male doctor for many years. Also, look at 53:28 mark about a woman who was convicted that she should not go to her male gynecologist who was in her Sunday School class anymore.

2.) This video discusses that a majority of women do not think about how a gynecological procedure could be sexual for a male doctor because she is often focused on making sure she does not have cancer or getting rid of cancer. In fact, many women actually dread gynecological procedures. See around 8:43 mark of the video. Make sure you watch through at least 11:50 mark to see how men’s minds work. Women and men’s minds work differently. This is why many women do not really think about the way they dress could cause men to have lustful thoughts.

3.) This video also addresses that even good male doctors and nurses are prone to have lustful thoughts toward women (they may never act on those thoughts, but Jesus talks about how lusting after a woman is committing adultery in your heart ) We address this in 11:50-14:19 mark)


4.) You all should definitely watch the part starting at 14:23 of the video about Dr. John Smith, a former male gynecologist who wrote the book, Women and Doctors. After 24 years of practicing, he came to the conclusion that males should not be gynecologists and that this field belongs to women. He exposed the gynecology industry and this is very admirable because most male gynecologists are very defensive when you question him. He even has one chapter in his book explaining why men should not be gynecologists.


5.) You all definitely need to listen to the history of gynecology section starting at around 25:11 mark. Most people are unaware that male gynecologists did not exist before medical school was invented. Actually, midwives and female nurses used to take care of female health issues. Especially pay close attention to 30:34 mark of the video where the speaker starts discussing an article that a male medical student wrote about historical progression of pelvic exam. This male medical student was upset that there is a big increase in female gynecologists and he feels we are going back to before 1800s when men were not allowed to examine private parts of women. Make sure you watch 33:24 mark that talks about how male doctors were slowly introduced to do intimate procedures on women around 1822. They were only allowed to palpate women’s genitals without looking at them. This is how sin is often slowly introduced in our culture today. Medical school was invented by man and not God. Medical school decided that intimate procedures on the opposite sex was okay. This is like the world. The World has decided that many things such as abortion, same sex marriage, etc. are okay.


6.) Around 36:40 mark talks about nurses as chaperones for male doctors and why they are useless.

7.) Make sure you watch 54:58 mark in the video. It discusses the scenario of a father retrieving a tampon from his daughter. Why would that be inappropriate for a father to do that if he had good intentions?

There are so many more important parts of this video. It’s worth your time watching it. At the end of the video, another subject about nude models in art classes is discussed.