Modesty

Well, this was said before the Spirit was yet given to the Church which was after He was resurrected, glorified and had ascended into heaven. So presumably we have power today to be "overcomers" through the Spirit.

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)​

Buit now, having the Spirit, where we fall down IMO is with keeping the precepts of the following Scripture:​

KJV Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

KJV Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.​

KJV Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.​

HankD

 

Well I tried to head off this conversation!

This has got to be the most judgemental statement I've read here in a long time!

Gerald, Just how do you know that Joe was even saved himself at the time? That he and his wife were actually married and not still in the dating stage? Where do you get the idea that he was in any position to "speak to his wife"?

Not only, but perhaps his pastor's definition of "conservative" was different from hers. Perhaps, the pastor who should certainly realize that a new Christian might not know all the "rules" should have better defined what he considered "conservative" to mean.

And let me tell you, the words mini and skirt together cover a huge range of skirt lengths, any where from the middle of the knee all the way up to "we wish they wouldn't". Since we don't actually have a picture of the skirt Joe's wife wore to her baptism we have no way of knowing that it wasn't a more conservative length!

It is not for any of us to judge another based soley on their manner of dress. You know what I think of when I see a woman in a burka, the most modest there is for a woman to dress? I see a woman who is unsaved. What????? You heard me. I immediately see someone who needs the love of Christ who says:

Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Who are you to make my burden heavier with your rules as to MY modesty? Christ had quite a bit to say to Pharisees who added so many extras to the law but forgot it's original purpose. How loving is it for you to question my salvation based soley on my manner of dress?

You say that not much was accomplished on the threads I directed you too. Guess what, not much will be accomplished here either. Or rather, not much will be accomplished here that will suit your way of thinking.

 

You do not know who is saved and who is not. Only God does. Your standards of salvation are but a small sliver of evidence in the whole array of things. For example, it could be said that the Pharisees were not saved because they lived by rules and not the love of God.

 

This verse is speaking of false prophets. So you have quoted it out of context.

Anyways you are calling sin bad fruit and then saying you can know somebody is not saved by that bad fruit. So if you have ANY sin (not just the sins you dont like) Then I guess by your own standards you are not saved.

 

Gotta love new folks that come around here with the desire to show all of us how dumb we are and set all of us straight...:BangHead:

 

MAN, this is a bunch of puke!
"It is not for any of us to judge another based soley on their manner of dress. You know what I think of when I see a woman in a burka, the most modest there is for a woman to dress? I see a woman who is unsaved. What????? You heard me."
Did you godly wiskered, headbangers ever read the Bible? ...."for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart" Quit making excuses for an unregenerate person. If it walks like a duck and quacks, call it a duck. Is that too hard for you to understand? Oh by the way sbc I:love2: you.

 

Whiskers? Me? :laugh:

Shiloh, you make my point for me. When I look at a woman in a burka, I automatically think that she must be a muslim and therefore unsaved.

You are correct. God looks at the heart. Who are we to judge by outward appearance?

 

"Modesty" has become a nebulous word without any real definition. It is relative, especially to the new generation of pastors. Are jeans on women modest. Some pastor would answer yes they can be. I disagree. Find out the history of jeans and you see why. There is a difference between men's clothing and women's clothing. When the unisex movement hit America, there wasn't a Fundamental Baptist Church anywhere that didn't preach against it. And yet now "unisex clothing" is accepted everywhere.

But what does it mean?
"Let the older women teach the younger women...to be modest."
What are they supposed to teach them?
Just say: "Be modest" I don't think so. I believe that there were some black and white standards that these women had to teach the younger women. It may have been partly related to the society at that time. But the principles still hold for today. We need to find out what that is. Modesty shouldn't have to be such a nebulous and undefinable term as so many make it to be. "What is modest for me isn't modest for you." This is not how the Bible is written. That philosophy is secular humansim. It is relativism; no absolutes. Are we sucked into the world so much so that we have taken on the values of the world instead of those of the Word?

 

I am not sure what you mean by the above, would you elaborate? thanks

 

Source of Information?

I was wondering if you could cite your source or some proof for the statement you made in the first sentence (regarding preaching the book of James). I have never heard this before.

 

As manageriekeeper wisely brought up, I was not saved at the time. AND... I DID talk to her about it. Gerald, you're awfully quick in your assumptions to conclude someone is not a Christian, or up to your standards.
She was dragging me to church at the time, and had only been attending herself for three months before she was baptized. Right after baptism, the following Sunday it all seemed to fall apart. The Pastor was not concerned over her dress except he was getting heat over it. He liked her very much. She had attended bible study that week prior to that awful Sunday. Funny thing is, that morning she asked me if her dress seemed sexy. She mentioned she needed new clothes, which told me she was becoming aware of her appearance in a different way. I told her she looked wonderful as usual. Maybe I should have spoken with her more, I wish I had. Yet, if they would have just waited a few weeks before bringing up her appearance, it would have corrected itself. Not that it needed correcting but if it bothers some folks, then it's an easy thing to fix.


I didn't see a lack of modesty. I felt it was rediculous to worry over such a thing, and still do. It causes more harm than good. I am not against anyone mentioning modesty to anyone, but it should be done with the right heart. Then it is likely to be taken that way.
It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

 

Of course you do :thumbsup: :love2: :tongue3:

 

Ya'll don't need new folks to do that.

The problem in all these threads is that those on one side will not acknowledge that God has a standard of modesty. Oh, they pretend to acknowledge it, but they make that standard of none effect by defining modesty as whatever one feels is modest.

The other side will acknowledge it but not be agreed on what that is.

 

I will acknowledge there is a standard set by God regarding modesty. Scarlett and others appear to do the same. Yet, if we don't have a clear definition of what the word means, we certainly can't have a clear cause and effect happening right?

No one wants to admit there is a modesty standard because everyone jumps on the bandwagon to conclude someone is automatically unsaved when they don't meet their criteria. Some even throw out insults such as regenerit (sorry for the bad spelling) or calling clothing clothing attire "evidence" of being unsaved. Factors such as culture, genetics, emotional maturity, bible interpretation, and childhood experiences all play into our view of modesty.
Comparisons like someone walks like a duck, so therefore must be a duck is nuts. Insults appear to come from people who feel they are saved, and feel a need to be above others.

Why would anyone want to become saved when this is the example shown to them?

 

Read Shiloh post, God does have a standard for modest but it is not regarding the outward appearence. Jesus and his Men didn't even take a change of clothe yet they went to the Temple.

This sounds like a well dressed bunch;

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

 

Joe,

your take on it seems correct, especially when it comes to your own experience with your wife. Seems that if the church people had first been willing to show her love, she would have more easily been able to take advice and even correction. Sometimes we get so "into" our standards that we forget there's a person under there. We all can take rebuke/exhortation/advice far better when we know the person giving it actually cares about us.

Especially in your case, having the standard wasn't the problem. It was their choice of when and how to approach her on it. We usually find at our church that as the person (both male and female) are faithful and get involved in church things, these outward appearance issues are most often taken care of "on their own."

 

Oooh, do I want to play dueling scriptures with someone I'm beginning to think is a troll? Do I?

You know what? I'll have to think about it.

Right now, I have to go do a man's job......Putting together a scooter for my daughter. Guess I should repent for not waiting til my husband could do it.