Modesty

[gb93433]

hummm, seems we've been over this before here, and still no one can show this in scripture.

Youy are asking too much.

Most people know more about what their preacher says than what their Bible says. Their preacher is elevated above scripture.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Idue to they really can't imagine the effect dress can have on a person.

Yup, at 52 years old I have no problems with immodestly dressed women. Yeah, right.

No one is excusing immodesty, it is the ranting and raving, and trying to define modesty according to his own definition is a problem.

We men, older or teen, have a responsibility - "I have made a covenant with my eyes. Why then will I look on a young woman?"

 

[annsni]

Amy.G... please don't get "open-toed shoe" and sandal miXed up. I call open-toed shoes flip flops. According to the Webster 1828 dictionary...


SAN'DAL, n. [L. sandalium; Gr.]

1. A kind of shoe, consisting of a sole fastened to the foot. The Greek and Roman ladies wore sandals made of a rich stuff, ornamented with gold or silver.
No where in that text do you read that the toe part is opened. It simply states that the sole was fastened to the foot. Now, I don't want to get technical with you, they may have wornopen-toed shoes, but I guarantee you that they didn't wear them with the provocative attire worn today, and they didn't wear them to God's House.

As a matter of fact, if you'd re-read my post, you'd see that is exactly what I was talking about. Everything in that line I named was what I see at my church.

Personally, I wear flip flops and I wear sandals. I don't wear flip flops in public, but I'll wear sandals. They cover my foot with ventilation. But, you won't catch me wearing any of that to church -- that would be slouchy. You don't wear to church what you would wear at home. By doing so, you're saying that your home and your daily activities is just as important as God's House and worshiping Him.

donnA... if the woman's outline was covered, there would be nothing to look at. Wearing tight and close-fitting clothes is just as revealing as showing the breasts. Wear a loose-fitting shirt and having something wrote across the breat area is just as revealing. The reason being is because it stills draws attention to that area, and the same thought runs through the man's head. When the man lusts upon that woman, the woman is just as guilty as the man! Matthew 5:28, "...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

That's right! They had to wash their feet because they got stinky in those closed shoes!

 

[gb93433]

That's right! They had to wash their feet because they got stinky in those closed shoes!

You mean those leather sandals that had animal manure, and dust on them?

 

[Brother Shane]

This southern boy ain't gonna let it go down like this... no he ain't! :laugh:

I have defended my idea of why we should dress up for the King. In fact, it took up a whole post. Do you need God to hand feed you every single thing? It's a crying shame when the Christians reach the point that they don't want to dress up for church. Yes, I think it is very wrong for someone to dress up for other events, yet when they go to church, they care less and wear their everyday clothes. Don't dress up for God, wear what you wear everyday. I guess we're just different, eh? And if you (and you do) need scripture to tell you to dress up for church, I don't. I have joy in respecting the Lord by dressing up.

What are you telling God?

1) You said your clothes are modest. I'm glad to find a lady who doesn't wear the pants in her family... literally. Pants are for men. I'm glad your dresses and skirts reach your ankles and you don't paint your face with makeup. I'm glad you don't wear shirts with words written across the breast attracting eyes to that area. In fact, I wonder why we are even having this discussion.

2) I never said to wear anything more affordable by others. Who can't afford to show respect?

3) Mock on.

I think (KNOW) I'm telling God I respect Him greatly. What do you tell that bride when you dress up nicely for her wedding?

Your other 10 minute post...

I guess dressing the same way you do at home for church, but dressing up for everything else shows your honour and love for God? Oh yeah, I'm sure He understands.

I'll tell you something I don't like... I don't like it when people say they have different "ways" of doings thing. In this case, if you can't dress up for God yet for other things, something is wrong. I don't know what, I may assume, but I won't assume here. I'll pray about it - and I hope everyone realizes that God looks on the outside the same way He looks on the inside. Dressing up for other events tells me that you think they're more important. Thank God He knows your heart! Amen!

Saying "a lot of us here" doesn't mean much to me, OK? You dress like the world.. you follow their teachings .. and you expect me to agree that I shouldn't dress up for church to show respect to God... I'm not ignorant.

I felt embarrassed for you when you defended your dressing up for everything else besides church.

To me, you're no different than someone saying their going to a bar to have church services and God's presence fulfills them every sip they take. God doesn't do it - and I know He wouldn't allow you to favour other activities that you dress up over (that don't include Him) over dressing up for church. Who do you think God is?

It really bothers me you have to search for scripture to tell you to dress up for church before you do it. Does that movie theater tell you that you HAVE to dress up? Does that concert? Does that wedding? Does that job interview? Then why do you?

And please, do you feel as if I am questioning your love for the Saviour? After all, dressing up for movies and dinner and not for church displays all your love for Him... correct? They we have not a problem.

donnA... you want to incorporate then with now. Think now, not then. For He will judge the world on things happening now for us... not back then.

Does it take scripture to tell you what a harlot looked like? Really... a prostitute?

You said I didn't know her? Didn't need to...

Matthew 7:20 - "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

That verse from Proverbs didn't tell me anything about mother's day....

 

[annsni]

donnaA... if I failed to make the point that I don't stare at the women and enjoy their nakedness or in your terms "ogle".. I'm very sorry. I thought I made that extremely clear in my disgust about the issue. Yes, I see the women but I turn my head. A man's heart that is right with God can't sit there and stare at the women with desire. If you think that I can't possibly notice the women's nakedness without ogling, then you need to be informed of a scenario.

I sit on the very first row at church, and a couple Sunday's ago was "Mother's Day." First, when the youngest mother of, I mean at the church that day (who needless-to-say didn't come back that night) got up to accept her flower, the whole congregation got to see her all of her legs and that trash bag of a dress she was wearing that hugged every corner of her. I turned my head immediately and did not clap for that woman (not a lady) while she made her way back to her seat.

I feel sorry for that woman. Instead of being dealt with in a Christian way, she was made to feel shame from judgmental people. You know how something like that could have been dealt with properly? For one or a few of the women to go to her and explain to her in private that they noticed a few of the men were embarrassed and that maybe it wasn't appropriate to wear to church. How about they all go shopping together for a few dresses (because, after all, we women always need new clothes) and they'll treat her to coffee afterwards. And if she has no money to buy a dress, what better way to provide for the needs of the congregation than to provide her some nice clothes? THAT is the way Jesus would deal with it rather than shame.

Then, all the children had to come to the front (where we were sitting) of the church to pass out small flowers to the rest of the mothers standing. Within seconds, a small girl stands in front of our seat with no back to her shirt. Was that supposed to be cute? Yes, I turned my head and pitied the mother.

Once again, approach the mother. Explain the issues of child sexual predators. Explain that maybe it might not be an appropriate thing for a child. But then again, I remember wearing halter dresses when I was a child in the late 60s early 70s so it's not a new thing. I don't think a child's back is a problem - but it also depends on the clothing.

Now, rethink this whole thing over and then try and tell me I sat there and "ogled" at those girls. When you get that right, think had the girls been dressed to start with, an innocent man wouldn't have been alleged "ogling" at a naked women.

She was not naked. But your attitude towards her was very unChristian, IMO.

C4K... Good to see you! Warm southern greetings from the southlands! No sir, I ain't saying that by no means. Let me put it this way...we should always dress modestly. But, you better believe that those two hours I set aside by Jesus Christ my Saviour and strictly for Him, I'm going to be dressed to the best of my ability showing respect and reverence to Him. Same thing when you go to a wedding or funeral... you dress up for that occasion and you show respect. I don't want God thinking that the way I dress for everyone else is the way I dress for Him because he's not anymore important.


I am still covered when I'm home, but when I enter the church house, I am going to be dressed up to the max like I'm going to see the King that day. After all, I am going to His House and going to worship Him. Putting on the same thing you wear for your family and wear to the grocery store and ballpark sure doesn't sound like the place you're going to is any more important. I hope you understand that I'm not being hypocritical as my clothes still display the modesty standard, yet a different style of clothing for my Saviour.

Might want to realize that most likely we won't be dressed to the hilt when we meet our Savior. I'd think we'd meet Him the same way He created us - naked. Hmmmmm

Beth... modesty isn't a style, it's a rule set forth for us to follow. If our external appearance didn't matter, then God wouldn't have set forth ways for us to dress. (1 Timothy 2:9-10) The Ten Commandments are in the old testament... does that mean we should go out and kill someone too and they are no longer there for us to go by? Never!

Indeed we are no longer under the law, but what can you say about God in the new testament days... the same God who set forth modesty and defined it in the old testament?

Malachi 3:6 - "For I am the LORD, I change not."

Since no where in the new testament do we see Him changing the laws of modesty, we must conclude He still considers nakedness an abomination!

And can you show me just where these rules are? How long below the knee should a dress be? 2"? 4"? How about how low below the collarbone should a neckline be? Zero? 1"? What makes it Godly and what makes it unGodly? I'd love to see the verse.

 

[ccrobinson]

If you all were forced to live inside a teenager or a young adults body for just one hour, I bet you would all understand Shane's point of view a little more.

Since when is this a problem that's confined exclusively to teenagers and young adults?

And, I'm so glad you copied this part for us, Ann, because I failed to comment on it earlier.

The reason being is because it stills draws attention to that area, and the same thought runs through the man's head. When the man lusts upon that woman, the woman is just as guilty as the man! Matthew 5:28, "...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

I've heard this exact thing taught before and it's complete nonsense. If I lust after a woman who's dressed modestly, how can she possibly be held responsible for my sin?

 

[Amy.G]

Maybe we "dress up" for special occasions and dress more "normally" for church is because man looks on the outside, but God looks at the heart. My clothes don't impress God. Beside that, I find it hard to worship in uncomfortable clothes. Panty hose should be made illegal! :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

And can you show me just where these rules are? How long below the knee should a dress be? 2"? 4"? How about how low below the collarbone should a neckline be? Zero? 1"? What makes it Godly and what makes it unGodly? I'd love to see the verse.

Ann, maybe we should take a bedsheet and throw it over our heads, cut two holes for eyes and then we would be dressed appropriately. :laugh:

 

[gb93433]

This southern boy ain't gonna let it go down like this... no he ain't! :laugh:

I have defended my idea of why we should dress up for the King. In fact, it took up a whole post. Do you need God to hand feed you every single thing? It's a crying shame when the Christians reach the point that they don't want to dress up for church. Yes, I think it is very wrong for someone to dress up for other events, yet when they go to church, they care less and wear their everyday clothes. Don't dress up for God, wear what you wear everyday. I guess we're just different, eh? And if you (and you do) need scripture to tell you to dress up for church, I don't. I have joy in respecting the Lord by dressing up.

I can remember the day when I had no money and nobody offered to buy me new clothes. So I had to dress in what I had. When I finally could afford to buy some clothes, some mentioned how nice I looked. What does that say about the church?

The best church I have been in was a church that had people from all walks of life. Everyone was welcom and many came to know Christ too. Wwe wouild see people in shorts and tee shirts along with people in nice suyits and dresses. They had one thing in common. They were growing Christians. The pastor was surfer and discipled people. He is now the dean of the school of theology in a well known seminary and is still discipling people. Many have read his books on discipleship. It was not a church by man's book but by God's grace and man's responsibility.

 

[annsni]

My sentiments exactly! I wear modest pantsuits and long skirts and jumpers...but my long skirts and jumpers do not have slits...what's the point of wearing skirts, dresses, jumpers, etc. down to the ankles if they have those huge slits to the thighs? To me that defeats the purpose of wearing the long skirts, dresses, jumpers in the first place. Isn't the purpose to cover? :tonofbricks:

I have skirts with slits. If you have a flowing skirt then you don't need one but my denim skirt is a little more fitted (looser than pants but still more fitted since heavy denim doesn't lend well to being cut full) and without the slit to my knee in the back, I'd be walking like Morticia Adams in the Adam's Family!

 

[ccrobinson]

I have defended my idea of why we should dress up for the King. In fact, it took up a whole post. Do you need God to hand feed you every single thing? It's a crying shame when the Christians reach the point that they don't want to dress up for church. Yes, I think it is very wrong for someone to dress up for other events, yet when they go to church, they care less and wear their everyday clothes. Don't dress up for God, wear what you wear everyday. I guess we're just different, eh? And if you (and you do) need scripture to tell you to dress up for church, I don't. I have joy in respecting the Lord by dressing up.

That's great. Fantastic. Your conviction is that you should dress up for church in something different than what you wear everyday. I applaud you for sticking to your conviction. Keep in mind that other people have different convictions from yours. Let's not pretend that your conviction automatically makes you holier and more righteous than anybody who doesn't share that conviction.

 

[gb93433]

I wonder what it would be like if people were not so interested in gettig the best clothes to cover up the skin as if they were more interested in helping those who have less. We have many foreigners in this country who come to study who have little and are struggling while church people are more interested in the color of the carpet and the clothes they wear. This past year I attempted to see how little I could get by with in food, and my consumption was almost 1/2. Imagine if we gave that much money away to those who are needy how much of an impact we would make on those who have much less. Most Americans are fat and rich compared to most of the world. When was the last time a person who felt that people should come to church all dressed up gave the same amount of money they spent on nice clothes for the exterior to lok good also gave away that much to someone who simply needed some clothes?

When our daughter was a lot younger and we did not have much. We did not have much money to buy clothes for her. There was a family in our church that gave us all the clothes we needed. That was a great blessing for us. They were very nice clothes too.

Too many Christian give away their junk and buy new things for themselves. Too many give away "Junk for Jesus."

 

[gb93433]

That's great. Fantastic. Your conviction is that you should dress up for church in something different than what you wear everyday. I applaud you for sticking to your conviction. Keep in mind that other people have different convictions from yours. Let's not pretend that your conviction automatically makes you holier and more righteous than anybody who doesn't share that conviction.

So your conviction is that you should spend money on church clothes that will be worn only once or twice a week and hang in the closet the rest of the time? How would it be if you spent the same amount of money on someone who needed some clothes or used that same amount of money on someone who needed food.

There are people in this country who cannot afford the basic things we have in our own homes. Some of them sit next to us in church each Sunday. Some of them live on less than $500 each month.

 

[ccrobinson]

So your conviction is that you should spend money on church clothes that will be worn only once or twice a week and hang in the closet the rest of the time?

gb, when did I say that this was my conviction?

 

[annsni]

OK - Two cups of tea and a couple of muffins got me through this thread. Here's my take on the matter at hand:

First off, Brother Shane, if you were my son (good heavens, I COULD be! WEIRD!!! Am I really that old that I'm now debating with people the age of my kids??), you would not be allowed to go to church in what you "dress up" in to go "before the King". The rules FOR MY FAMILY (not for anyone else) is no jeans, no sneakers. Period. We were late for church this week because we couldn't find my son's shoes. He wanted to wear his sneakers but we kept looking. I don't care if the jeans are the nicest designer jeans but for us, jeans are not appropriate for church. So, should I hold you to my standard? I also know of those in the "modesty camp" who feel that jeans on men and women are immodest because it clings too much to the private area. So what you wear is not considered either modest or "the best" to others. Will you now change because of this?

Yes, we are to present our best to the Lord. I do think that dressing nicely is appropriate for church but I will never, ever judge someone on what they are wearing because I'm just glad they are there. As I stated in an earlier post, if I think that someone needs to be made aware that what they are wearing is making others uncomfortable, I will not only tell them but find out if they have the ability to get different clothing. Honestly, I've heard of people not going to church at all because they don't have anything to wear and can't afford anything right now and is that what God really wants? I think He wants our hearts - our wardrobe will follow. God has not set forth rules on what we are to wear other than modest, and that WILL be dependent on culture and times. There's nothing wrong with that. Hey - if someone came into our church dressed in what once was declared modest in other times (with corsets and bustiers), then I think we'd be shocked.

 

[queenbee]

Yes, we are to present our best to the Lord. I do think that dressing nicely is appropriate for church but I will never, ever judge someone on what they are wearing because I'm just glad they are there. ....Honestly, I've heard of people not going to church at all because they don't have anything to wear and can't afford anything right now and is that what God really wants? I think He wants our hearts - our wardrobe will follow. God has not set forth rules on what we are to wear other than modest, and that WILL be dependent on culture and times.

Well said Ann

 

[donnA]

That's great. Fantastic. Your conviction is that you should dress up for church in something different than what you wear everyday. I applaud you for sticking to your conviction. Keep in mind that other people have different convictions from yours. Let's not pretend that your conviction automatically makes you holier and more righteous than anybody who doesn't share that conviction.

Neither is a conviction like this biblical (as in no verses to support his whole conviction)and should not be treated as such. Saying others must follow his own conviction is legalism.
Each person has his own convictions from God, what would happen if we all tried to make others follow our own convictions?

 

[donnA]

So your conviction is that you should spend money on church clothes that will be worn only once or twice a week and hang in the closet the rest of the time? How would it be if you spent the same amount of money on someone who needed some clothes or used that same amount of money on someone who needed food.

There are people in this country who cannot afford the basic things we have in our own homes. Some of them sit next to us in church each Sunday. Some of them live on less than $500 each month.

Personally, I wear clean untorn clothing to church, but can not afford a seperate wardrobe for anything. Just daily wear. My only seperate clothing is the stuff I've had for years and clean house in, bleach stains and stuff.

 

[Gwyneth]

"Personally, I wear clean untorn clothing to church, but can not afford a seperate wardrobe for anything. Just daily wear. My only seperate clothing is the stuff I've had for years and clean house in, bleach stains and stuff."
posted by Donna
__________________
Yes Donna, I am the same as you . I have always worked as a retail manager, and have always been required to wear good(clean/tidy/untorn) clothes to work. This said, there were never levels of clothing, apart from that which you mention in my wardrobe either, as I could not afford it. My work clothes were my best clothes and these were the same as I wore to worship services. Needless to say that these "best clothes " are also modest.
Gwyneth