Mom says soldier son followed attack orders

My dear Mr. Botwinick, you still are missing it. I already said they Iraq marines are innocent until proven guilty. Did you not read that?

I also said that should not preclude discussion or media coverage of the unfolding body of evidence. Where have I declared them guilty or been "chomping at the bit" to condemn the war. The war was a mistake from the start, but that is not the issue. The issue is are these men guilty or not. The court will decide, assuming they are ever even charged.

BTW, despite common usage, the original term is "champing at the bit". Thought you might like to know, but either is now accepted. http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/wftwarch.pl?032905

 

EG, finally you said something that we can find common ground on.

 

Do you feel that Kerry told the truth during his interview? Do you feel that what he admitted to committing in Vietnam was in the best interests of the USA, the world, or even the civilians in Vietnam?

Do you feel a little dirty when you listen to him say that "yes" I did those same kinds of atrocities. What do you feel would be an atrocity so bad that he would not even name it by its rightful name? Murder? Rape? What is an atrocity so bad that you will not even mention its name?

How does his service to our country make you feel? Proud? Or ashamed? Ashamed that a young man could let himself do such things?

 

EG, like I stated, I have no way of knowing John Kerry's mind, either in 1971 or in 2004. I suspect he exaggerated a bit as an activist (although maybe not), and may have age, experience and wisdom in 2004, along with a healthy dose of political embarrasment over statements made as a young anti-war crusader and Vietnam vet. Note that he never says he killed any civilians, but shot in free fire zones and torched villages.

That said, if he did indeed kill innocents in cold blood, and not as part of battle, then I alrready stated he deserves the same as Lt. Wm. Calley received.

I am proud of much about my country. I am ashamed of its sending its young to be slaughtered in both the jungles of SE Asia and in the deserts of Iraq. Sometimes war is necessary. IMO, neither of these undeclared military actions were.

I was not drafted, but chose to serve my nation, wearing it's uniform with honor, and was proud to do so. I am personally blessed that I was never called to a war.

 

Well,

Here is the way I see it:

Either Kerry is a war criminal or a liar. Which one do you think he is, MP?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Forget thinking.

Which do you feel he is? You have listened to his 1970's interview - how did you feel when you listened to him?

Did you feel that he was angry?
Or did you feel that he was matter-of-factly telling what he saw and did.

 

Answered above, although I don't see it as the false dichotomy you present.

Again, he never claims to have murdered civilians.

 

When asked if his statement about geneocide was true and had he particpated, Kerry replied: "Yes, Yes I would have to say . . . "

"All of this is contrary to the Geneva Convention".

Did he sound angry? Did he sound like an angry young man? Or did he sound like a man that had been an officer, led troops, and admitted that he broke the Geneva Convention?

 

I believe he had anger at what his country was having its military involved in. I share that anger and outrage. I also believe he was speaking to effect change. I am no big Kerry fan, but I also give the benefit of the doubt, both to Sen. Kerry and to the Marines in Iraq.

The war criminals, IMO, included Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara. Today they include George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld. THAT is how I feel. And that pretty much covers the Democrats in the 1960s and the Republicans now.

I will give the Democrats back then this much...at least they didn't send our young soldiers into battle without full armor and helmets. When families have to send body armor, when the troops must build vehicle armor from scrap metal, and when Cher has to buy them helmets, something is seriously wrong.

 

Sounds like anger that you do not know how to handle - I learned to blame those that deserve blame and not let their anger get to me. When they confess they are guilty. Regardless of political affiliation or family name and money.

We all sin. We all commit sin that is bad. But, murder is at the top of the list.

He was trained to do his best. I feel that he failed to do his best. And I feel that he blamed his fellow soldiers when they needed him to help them shoulder the guilt of just being in a war zone.

 

Exsqueeze me? How do I not handle it? I am angry when my beloved homeland bullies the world and tries to impose itself on places that pose no threat to us. How I handle it is, I volunteer at phone banks, I vote, I petition, I write letters. THAT is how it is handled in a free society.

 

I personally think he is a liar who was willing to say anything, as was Fonda, to smear America and its military for his anti-war political purposes, as are most liberals today.

Joseph Botwinick

 

It's true. Just remember who put them in that position.

BTW, the greatest danger to democracy is not that the people might know what's going on. It's that the government might find more ways to hide what's going on.