Monastic Life?

[dianetavegia]

Diane answers: John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."

Not under a bushel.... but the nations!


Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

The driver crosses the finish line, but could he have won if the pit crew did not refuel him when he came in to the pit area?

If the pit crew reads the manuals but never puts that knowledge into action...

[ July 04, 2005, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

[D28guy]

Diane,

"If the pit crew reads the manuals but never puts that knowledge into action..."

But they are putting their knowledge into action. They refuel the car when it comes in. That is their part of the race. The drivers part is driving, the pit crews part is refueling.

The point I'm making is that prayer works, and I have no doubt you agree with that.

I'm sure you probably heard about the study that was done several years ago with the people praying for patients who were very sick in several hospitals.

It was what is called a "double blind" study, which basically means it pretty makes any kind of skewed results...due to prejudgice, bias, etc...impossible.

There were a large group of christians who were given people to pray for. I believe they agreed to pray often and fervently for the person they were given. All they knew was that each unidentified person was in serious condition at one of these hospitals.

When the study was finished and the results were studied it was very clearly shown that the patients who were prayed for starting on the chosen date...and they themselves had no idea about the study at all, thats the "double blind" part...showed very clearly that they did substantially better than those who were not prayed for.

So...we know prayer works. And if prayer works, than people who are devoting themselves to praying for people who are proclaiming the gospel..and that can mean you or I speaking with a neighbor or an evangelist or pastor...are contributing just as much as those doing the sharing.

Wouldnt you agree?

Mike

 

[dianetavegia]

Positively Mike!

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

I think RETREATS and sabbaticals are a wonderful idea! I do not think we should all become 'holy men on top of the mountain' but that most of us need to put feet to the Gospel!

Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Scripture tells us to get away and pray! Making it a lifestyle is another thing. As a missionary, as a worker at an orphanage, a leper colony, a T.B. clinic, a homeless shelter, an AIDS ward... and in a quiet closet with just Jesus.

 

[Marcia]

I agree with Diane.

D28guy, are you sure that study was with Christians? How did they define "Christians?" All the studies I know about have included non-Christians praying.

Also, how is success measured? If someone dies, is that failure? So if 80% get better and 20% die, does that mean God failed in 20% of the cases? Maybe it's their time to go and maybe the true healing is when they die.

The big guy who started this prayer thing, Larry Dossey, is a New Ager.

 

[mioque]

Quoted from the link in the first post.

"New Melleray is a Cistercian (Trappist) monastery located in the rolling farmland south of Dubuque, Iowa. We support ourselves by farming and making wooden caskets"
"
what disturbing novelty is this. Trappisten who don't brew beer for a living?

 

[D28guy]

Marcia,

I mentioned the "double blind" prayer study and the hospital patients, and you said...

D28guy, are you sure that study was with Christians? How did they define "Christians?" All the studies I know about have included non-Christians praying.

Its been quite a while. This was back in the late 80's or very early 90's. I thought it was christians praying, but my memory could be failing me. I remember it made the rounds in the christian community back then. It was a "hot" thing that got around pretty quickly. There was no internet then I dont think, but it seems I heard about it on radio programs...maybe Dobson or some talk program.

Also, how is success measured? If someone dies, is that failure? So if 80% get better and 20% die, does that mean God failed in 20% of the cases? Maybe it's their time to go and maybe the true healing is when they die.

As best as I can remember, the ones prayed for got better. I'd say I'm pretty sure about that part, because that really was what grabbed me about it.

The big guy who started this prayer thing, Larry Dossey, is a New Ager.

I dont know if this is the one he was involved with or another one. I'll do some "googling" and see what I can come up with.

God bless,

Mike

 

[mioque]

Everybody but especially Diane&Marcia

It ought to be pointed out that there are 2 types of monastic orders.
I. There are active orders that focus mostly on going out into the world and doing stuff. You know all those nuns that are schoolteachers, or nurses in hospitals? Most likely members of those active orders. Overhere it used to be so common that it was normal to adress any nurse as sister.
II. There are contemplative orders that focus more on the holy man on the mountain thing. One can question on an individual level if their lifestyle is such a good idea, collectively however contemplatives have accomplished great things. For one thing Christianity would have died out in Egypt without them. For another, all those handwritten medieval manuscripts of the Bible? Copied by contemplative monks.
It is rather typical that seperation is a respectable thing if baptist Fundies practice it and bad if anybody else does it.

 

[Marcia]

D28, as far as I know, the studies include all religions and would certainly include those who are Christian in name only. Also, some studies would categorize Mormons and JWs as Christians. Another problem is that other factors are not considered with the results, such as how sick the person was, how much treatment they were getting, how healthy they were to begin with, age of the patients, etc. Also, one would have to trust those who said they were praying that they really did so. Self-reports such as this in studies make them very dubious.

I wrote this in a newsletter I sent out last year. Notice the quote from Claudia Kalb that different denominations have never been taken into account in these studies as far as she knows.

The November 10 issue of Newsweek, in an article, “Faith and Healing,” addressed the topic of prayer and healing, pointing out problems such as “measuring” the prayers for a sick person. Prayers from all religions are used in these studies. The author, Claudia Kalb, was asked, “Is there a difference in the rate of recovery and death rates in hospitals with respect to denominational differences?” and she responded, “As far as I know, this has never been studied, and I doubt it ever will be. While researchers may be interested in scientifically testing the role of faith in health, I haven't come across any who want to compare, or even worse, pit, one religion against another.” Kalb proposes that maybe one day we will be able to measure the “energy” of prayer (http://www.msnbc.com/m/nw/talk/archive.asp?lt=110603_kalb).

Also, Christians should think about the fact that many times God does not heal the person, despite prayers, for His own reasons. Should that count as a failure? Of course not. Sometimes, God taking a believer home may be the “healing” or "getting better." This is not failure, either. Yet it will count as a failure in these studies.