More Extremes of “Crossless” Gospel Apologists

The issue perhaps could/should be the scoring on a quiz as long as it is a scriptural quiz. Not so much for the hearer of the gospel but for the one who presumes to speak in His name.

The Scipture (especially 1 John gives many tests concerning a person's supposed postition in the Lord).

Both the talk and the walk must agree.

When the Gospel is presented, the Christ who is presented must be the Christ of revelation.

The Scripture is very strong concerning the Gospel.

Galatians 1

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.​

Whether God can or will regenerate a man beyond the age of accountability without the Gospel is debatable.

Since He can do all things I would say yes and it would be an exception to His rules, however when the Gospel is preached it must be preached correctly.

A crossless Gospel is no Gospel no matter to whom it is given.


HankD

 

Lou,

That is not what I stated.

In the post you are referring to I said there was nothing said regarding "Christ dieing for our sins on the cross", only that he was executed. Peter simply told Cornelius that Christ was "hung on a tree and killed". Nothing was stated about our sins being placed on Christ, Christ taking our death penalty upon Himself and making atonement for our sins.

Yet Cornelius was clearly born of the Spirit. Saved.

And there was information left out with the jailer as well, regarding Christs Diety and dieing for our sins, yet he was given the promise of eternal life if he "believed".

Mike

 

Cornelius might have already been justified in the faith that he possessed of the God of Israel and the promise of the Messiah:

And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Acts is a transitional book. Cornelius was probably chosen by God to be received/translated into the church upon the receiving of the Holy Spirit and then to take the gospel back as a witness to the gentiles in Italy.

In addition we can see from the four gospels that the human authors of the gospels often gave varying accounts of the same incident. Not in opposition to each other but each gave in part what he thought and/or was moved by the Holy Spirit to write. We probably are not given every detail of Peter's disertation and we don't really know what happened with Cornelius after Luke's account in Acts chapter 10.

However, one thing we do know: We in this age (after the completion of the full revelation given by Jesus Christ and His apostles) have very clear instructions as to the preaching of the gospel and the teaching of the persona of Christ.

Let's face it, the preaching of the cross is offensive to this world and those who want to justify self through religion.

And why so? Because (take the case of circumcision), I make the decision to be circumcized. I "do" something to make myself right and pleasing in God's eyes.

The cross says we can do nothing, Jesus Christ had to do it all because not only do we sin, we are sinners by nature and unable to please Him as such.

The offense of the cross also involves a horrible death and the shedding of the life's blood of which we ourselves are worthy in our unregenerate condition. Thus the death of the cross declares what we "deserve" from God.

It is no surprise that this is offensive to the world.

However, there will always be a few who will accept the reproval of the Spirit and come to the light.

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.​

There is no "crossless gospel". There is no salvation apart from the Christ of Scripture. ​

If Christians want to have religious and/or philosophical conversations with their unregenerate friends, fine, it can lead into an opportunity of witness. ​

But when the opportunity does arise and the Spirit leads to speak in His name:​

1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness.​

HankD​

 

Hank,

I agree completly. And the GES folks being vigorously slammed and accused of being heretics do as well. I found abundant evidence on their web-site that they hold to those very foundational truths. ​

I know! And thats why I dont understand why these people are being slammed so vigorously. ​

It most certainly can.​

I agree 100%​

When I witness it is normal for me to bring up the cross, Christ taking our sins upon Himself, substitionary atonement, Christs Diety,etc etc. But I dont have a checklist that I go through. I dont have things memorized. I dont witness like a robot. I witness conversationally, and casually...as the Holy Spirit leads. ​

And there could very well have been times over the course of my 26 years as a christian when I....just because of how the conversation flowed...might have not shared something that I usually share. I might not have, in some cases, specificially mentioned that Jesus is God...but everything else is there. Other times, maybe I didnt share that our sins where placed on Christ....but everything else was in place.

And yet ALWAYS, the importance, and exclusivity of Christ is ALWAYS at the forefront. Christ is always lifted up as the seekers only hope for eternal life, and a truly meaningfull life here on earth. ​

Usually I cover all the bases, but if I miss something...our God is a BIG GOD and He can handle His part of the encounter just fine. :thumbs:

God bless,​

Mike ​

​

 

Lou,

Dont you think that if someone is encouraged to "believe on" Jesus Christ, and to "place their faith" in Christ for salvation, and in doing so they will recieve the gift of eternal life....but without the specific mention of Christ being God....dont you think it is obvious that Jesus Christ is being presented as God, and that the one believing on Him implicitly understands that?

I mean...who can dispense eternal life to someone other than God Himself?

And who would expect someone other than God Himself to be able to do that?

Mike

 

It certainly will become an issue when the ordinance of baptism is covered which in the Scripture almost always immediately followed a profession of faith.

Baptism is a picture of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Baptism is done in the Trinitarian formula:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Certainly the phrase "teach all nations" must contain within it an explanation of why the "name" of God is singular yet there are three distinct persons encompassed within that name, one of them being the Son.

This is exactly why He was crucified, His claim to deity.

John 8
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Later in John 10 they tried again to stone Him

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 ... For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.


HankD​

 

HankG,

I agree with all of that. ​

And from what I have seen the GES does as well. From what I have seen on their site they are straight up, died in the wool, card carrying, full fledged 100% gospel preaching evangelicals.

The diety of Christ. Substitutionary atonement. The exclusivity of Christ. The triune nature of God. Justification by faith alone, sola scriptura, etc etc etc. ​

They are as straight up, scriptural, evangelical as one can be.

And yet they are being accused of being heretics, apostates, false teachers, etc.

I just dont get it.​

God bless,​

Mike​

​

 

OK Mike, there has probably been a misunderstanding along the way.

In any event these are current issues and perhaps some have come to unwarranted conclusions concerning these men/organization(s).

Please note I carefully stated that my posts were not an indictment against such in particular but against the concepts of a "crossless" gospel and a Savior who could not be called "Christ" and ANY who teach the same.

HankD

 

Lou, keep up the good work. I've just read most of the thread and you are still right on target.

This issue is especially important to those of us on the mission fields of the world. If we do not carefully explain the Gospel, it is quite easy here in Japan and many other countries to get people to acknowledge Christ as the (or just one) giver of eternal life. But the contrast here in Japan between Christian and non-Christian is so great that it is very evident sooner or later when salvation doees not occur because of an incomplete message.

I'm reminded of a young lady I heard about who heard about Christ minus any explanation of His resurrection. Referring to the ancestor worship occuring in almost all Japanese religions, she said, "Why should I worship another dead man?" The cross and resurrection are indispensible. :type:

 

Thanks brother Lou, I'll check out your articles.

The crossless Gospel will make it out here eventually. Fortunately though, heresies take awhile to make it into some mission fields including ours.

God bless.

John

 

Lou,

You say...

He is still referred to as the "LORD Jesus Christ in the revised statement.

And you say this in spite of the fact that their revised statement of beliefes says...

But then...you do it again!....

IN SPITE OF the fact that their REVISED statement of belief says...

Again, I believe you are nit picking, and "straining out a gnat to swallow a camel". You are making a mountain out of a microscopic molehill.

I have no problem with these brothers and sisters whatsoever. They are proclaiming the true gospel of Jesus Christ...and much of what is convincing me is material that YOU...a staunch critic...are linking to and posting!

God bless,

Mike

 

I'll certainly be on the lookout for it. Also, on furlough missionaries sometimes get ambushed with new doctrines, so I'll be ready then, too.

God bless.

John