More People in Heaven Than in Hell

[tyndale1946]

Ken I see you made yourself a new friend... He seems to be implying the doctrine of scripture cancellization... One scripture doesn't harmonize it is used to cancel the other one out... He is a Pastor Too!... At least I think that is what he said... narrow gate... innumerable host!... Isn't that what you said? In the context the narrow gate and wide gate are only for discipleship and servitude for his born again children... Brother Glen

[ August 16, 2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[Bible-belted]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
Ken I see you made yourself a new friend... He seems to be implying the doctrine of scripture cancellization... One scripture doesn't harmonize it is used to cancel the other one out... He is a Pastor Too!... At least I think that is what he said... narrow gate... innumerable host!... Isn't that what you said? In the context the narrow gate and wide gate are only for discipleship and servitude for his born again children... Brother Glen

Glen,

Greetings to you. Matthew 7:13,14 speaks of the narrow road leading to life, the consummated Kingdom of God. Sounds like salvation to me. The other road leads to death. Sounds like damnation to me. To speak of the road (discipleship) without reference to what it leads to (eternal life) is the only way to achieve your conlusion. But that would be improper.

[ August 16, 2002, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: Latreia ]

 

[Ray Berrian]

Scott Emmerson,

Now I know why some Calvinists believe there will be more people in Heaven than in Hell. Why? Because Spurgeon said so. In the world that I live in including India, China and Russia I don't see living, witnessing, billions of saints on earth before their transfer into Heaven. Neither do I see a Christian utopia on earth. Am I missing something? Your brother Camping believes we are in the Great Tribulation, so our chances of converting these billions of people are minimal at best.

Can we again look at Matthew 7:14. Jesus said, by comparison of all living human beings, from all time, only the 'few' go into His eternal life. Do you agree with Jesus?

 

[russell55]

Ray Berrian,

Just curious....do you believe that babies who die go to heaven?

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
In the world that I live in including India, China and Russia I don't see living, witnessing, billions of saints on earth before their transfer into Heaven.

God hasn't finished saving people yet, Ray.

By the way, I believe more will be in heaven than in hell because the Bible says so. Spurgeon was simply saying what the Bible teaches.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:

By the way, I believe more will be in heaven than in hell because the Bible says so. Spurgeon was simply saying what the Bible teaches.
[/QB]

Where does the Bible say so? Where does the Bible say that there will be more people in Heaven than in Hell?

I was waiting earlier for pinoybaptist I think to show such a Scripture and he never did.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Where does the Bible say that there will be more people in Heaven than in Hell?

(Dan 2:34-35 NKJV) "You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. {35} "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

(Mat 12:28-29 NKJV) "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. {29} "Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

(Mark 3:26-27 NKJV) "And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. {27} "No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.

(Luke 11:20-22 NKJV) "But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. {21} "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. {22} "But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils.

(Col 1:18 NKJV) And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[Ray Berrian]

Russell55,

Absolutely! King David's son from an adulterous relationship entered eternal life with God. God is fair, a God of justice; he would never think of damning the innocents.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Ken Hamilton,

Yeh, right.

 

[KenH]

So glad you agree, Ray.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[KenH]

My first list of Scriptures was by no means exhaustive, so let me go ahead and add two more.

(Isa 2:2-4 NKJV) Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the Lord's house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it. {3} Many people shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. {4} He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.

(Mat 13:31-33 NKJV) Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, {32} "which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches." {33} Another parable He spoke to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened."

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[tyndale1946]

Scott Emerson said:

Where does the Bible say so? Where does the Bible say that there will be more people in Heaven than in Hell?

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb... These are the redeemed blood bought children of God... A great multitude which no man can number!... Since the number in Hell is not mentioned its of little importance to Jesus Christ or it would have been mentioned... All his blood bought children will live with him in Heaven!... Brother Glen

[ August 19, 2002, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[russell55]

Absolutely! King David's son from an adulterous relationship entered eternal life with God. God is fair, a God of justice; he would never think of damning the innocents.

Hmmm.....okay. Here's the reason I asked that question: If it is true that all the little one's who die go to heaven, doesn't that in itself make it pretty certain that there will be more people in heaven than hell?

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:
(Dan 2:34-35 NKJV) "You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. {35} "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; the wind carried them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

Nothing about a majority.

(Mat 12:28-29 NKJV) "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. {29} "Or how can one enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

If only one person was ever saved, this verse would still apply, so this is still not talking about a majority.

(Mark 3:26-27 NKJV) "And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. {27} "No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.

See above.

(Luke 11:20-22 NKJV) "But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. {21} "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. {22} "But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils.

Ditto.

(Col 1:18 NKJV) And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

And what does this have to do with the majority? Would this not still apply with a minority? Preeminence here is the Greek word proteuo, which simply means in the first. If he indeed gets "first choice" over the elect, then this verse would easily be true, even if a minority were saved.

Your Isaiah passage in the next post merely says "many." Many doesn't mean a majority. I could say "many" people were eating popcorn in the theatre without meaning "all."

The Matthew passage again doesn't explicitly or implicitly state that a majority of people will be in heaven, and it is a huge stretch to say that it is.

What a stretch it is to say that the Bible says that the majority of people shall be saved. We both agree that the number will be very large, but the Truth of the matter is that the Bible, while saying that there will be a very large number saved, does not state clearly that a majority of people will be saved. Your choice of passages is evidence of that.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb...

These are the redeemed blood bought children of God... A great multitude which no man can number!... Since the number in Hell is not mentioned its of little importance to Jesus Christ or it would have been mentioned... All his blood bought children will live with him in Heaven!... Brother Glen

So if something isn't mentioned, then it's smaller? By that logic, the people in China were less populous than the children of Israel, since their number wasn't mentioned in Exodus, which we know to be untrue. If the nature of the passage is to glorify God for saving a multitude, which it obviously is, why would the author state, "By the way, Hell was more populated"?

This is known as the logical fallacy of an argument from silence. It just doesn't work.

 

[tyndale1946]

Scott Emerson said:

If the nature of the passage is to glorify God for saving a multitude, which it obviously is, why would the author state, "By the way, Hell was more populated"?

What author are you talking about?... I'm quoting scripture!... I Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do... Questions like... Did Adam have a belly button?... Where did Cain find his wife?... How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?... and last but not least... Will there be more people in Heaven than Hell?... I've got better doctrines to debate about than this baloney! No offense on your question Ken but some of the brethren are not comparing scripture with scripture!... Wait till we get there then I can turn to those doubting Thomases with their mouths hanging open

and say... "SEE!... LOOK AT THE NUMBERLESS MULTITUDE!... I TOLD YOU SO!"... Brother Glen

[ August 20, 2002, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by tyndale1946:
and say... "SEE!... LOOK AT THE NUMBERLESS MULTITUDE!... I TOLD YOU SO!"... Brother Glen [/QB]

That's just it. No one here is denying that there will be a numberless multitude. The Bible says this clearly. What the Bible doesn't say is a comparitive amount. It doesn't say that there will be more or less members than in Hell. And where the Scripture is silent, should we not also be silent?

 

[Dualhunter]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by tyndale1946:
and say... "SEE!... LOOK AT THE NUMBERLESS MULTITUDE!... I TOLD YOU SO!"... Brother Glen

That's just it. No one here is denying that there will be a numberless multitude. The Bible says this clearly. What the Bible doesn't say is a comparitive amount. It doesn't say that there will be more or less members than in Hell. And where the Scripture is silent, should we not also be silent?[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]While I agree that it would be best to avoid saying it with certainity, I do feel that it may be likely.

16 The city is laid out as a square, and its length is as great as the width; and he measured the city with the rod, [3] fifteen hundred miles; its length and width and height are equal. - Revelation 21:16 NASB

That's well over 3 trillion cubic miles, that doesn't necessarily mean that there will be more people in heaven than in hell, but it does suggest that there is a good chance.

[ August 20, 2002, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Dualhunter ]

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Dualhunter:
While I agree that it would be best to avoid saying it with certainity, I do feel that it may be likely.

While it may very well be more likely (although size may not matter, because everyone might have their own 1,000,000 square mile room - we really don't know how much room will be in our "mansions"), it still is not conclusively in the Scriptures that there will be more people or heaven, despite what Spurgeon or anyone on the board says.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
And where the Scripture is silent, should we not also be silent?

Then you don't agree with Ray when he states that only a minority of people will be saved?

Ken
A Spurgeonite