Mormon/Christian?

[steaver]

I was listening to the Oreilly radio program the other day and a woman called in (a mormon) and asked Bill to do all he could in his power to inform people that Mormons are indeed Christian.

She said look at their own church's title..."The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints".

Bill agreed with her, as usual he knows little about religions, said he did not see what the big deal was.

My questions for the board are as follows;

1) Is it possible for a person to NOT believe Jesus is God and be a Christian?

2) Do Mormons proclaim the Trinity, One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

I am a bit rusty on my mormonism, but if I remember right, they do not hold Jesus to the level of God. Is this correct?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Mormons and JWs are not trinitarian.

But I have another question for you - was John the baptizer trinitarian?

The fact that we do accept the doctrine of the Trinity today does not mean that the saved saints listed in Heb 11 from the OT knew about the Trinity - and yet they are saved.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[webdog]

1) Is it possible for a person to NOT believe Jesus is God and be a Christian?

No.

2) Do Mormons proclaim the Trinity, One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

No.

I am a bit rusty on my mormonism, but if I remember right, they do not hold Jesus to the level of God. Is this correct?

Yes.

 

[DHK]

In a nutshell Mormon belief is summarized as:

As God is man will become.
As man is God was.

Thus, believing the serpent's lie, they believe that they all shall be gods.

 

[donnA]

1) Is it possible for a person to NOT believe Jesus is God and be a Christian?

No. when they change who the Bible says Jesus is it is not the biblical Jesus they are talking about, they have a man made Jesus, but not the bible Jesus.

 

[steaver]

The fact that we do accept the doctrine of the Trinity today does not mean that the saved saints listed in Heb 11 from the OT knew about the Trinity - and yet they are saved.

in Christ,

Bob

This is true, but how could they not understand the clear teaching in the scriptures about Jesus' divinity? The earliest examples we have written in the NT letters shows Jesus being worshipped as God.

Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Even though the OT saints did not understand the trinity, they had scripture that revealed the plurality of God to them. It is also written that the Savior to come will be given the titles of God.

Isa 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

It seems logical to me that the only way one could miss the fact that Jesus is God is because they have not the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, to testify to them from within all truth. They have not been born-again and thus not saved. The OT saints did not have all of these mysteries revealed to them in scripture as we do today.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Salty]

Just to add a little more fuel to the fire:

Radio Host Glenn Beck is a mormon. Raised a Cathoilic, he beacame alcholic, and became divorced from his wife. He met a new lady friend and accepted her beliefs. Glenn has said it was thru the power of Jesus that took away the alcholicsm.

Not my opinion, just reporting the facts

Salty


glenn beck link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Beck

 

[steaver]

Radio Host Glenn Beck is a mormon. Raised a Cathoilic, he beacame alcholic, and became divorced from his wife. He met a new lady friend and accepted her beliefs. Glenn has said it was thru the power of Jesus that took away the alcholicsm.

Not my opinion, just reporting the facts

Salty

I wonder if mormonism has evolved into Christianity in the minds of many mormons. I mean to say that many people who call themselves mormon may do so just because they were born into a family of mormon and they may not really care what the religion's roots are. They may have found a relationship with Jesus Christ in spite of mormonism since they do have access to and do read the Holy Bible.

This would be true for Catholocism as well as Adventism. Sorry BobRyan, I don't desire a debate over the christian authenticity of Adventism. Just wondering why these groups cling to false prophets writings (or popes writings) when they only need God's Word.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[trustitl]

Mormon/Christian

Just to add a little more fuel to the fire:

Radio Host Glenn Beck is a mormon. Raised a Cathoilic, he beacame alcholic, and became divorced from his wife. He met a new lady friend and accepted her beliefs. Glenn has said it was thru the power of Jesus that took away the alcholicsm.

glenn beck link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Beck

Not my poinion, just reporting the facts :thumbs: .

The most dangerous lie is one that is 99% true.
Rat poisoning is less than 2% poison.
Every trap has to have bait.

Mark 13:22 "For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."

II Cor. 11:14 "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Matt. 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

 

[Rubato 1]

Mormons and JWs are not trinitarian.

But I have another question for you - was John the baptizer trinitarian?

The fact that we do accept the doctrine of the Trinity today does not mean that the saved saints listed in Heb 11 from the OT knew about the Trinity - and yet they are saved.

in Christ,

Bob

To not believe what has not been revealed ("OT" saints thru John the Baptist) is a little different than denying the explicit word, as the cults like Mormonism do.

 

[Gold Dragon]

y questions for the board are as follows;

1) Is it possible for a person to NOT believe Jesus is God and be a Christian?

2) Do Mormons proclaim the Trinity, One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

I am a bit rusty on my mormonism, but if I remember right, they do not hold Jesus to the level of God. Is this correct?

God Bless! :thumbs:

Historically Mormons are a group that came out of the Christian restoration movement and Christologically they proclaim Jesus Christ as Son of God, Lord and Saviour so it would be appropriate to call them demographically Christian.

However, they are also non-Trinitarian, believing Jesus to be a created being as part of a three person Godhead with the Father and Holy Spirit. They are theologically different enough to be considered non-orthodox Christianity or heterodox Christianity. I consider all non-Trinitarian Christian groups (JW, Christadelphians, Unitarians, Oneness Pent) to be non-orthodox Christianity.

Whether God chooses to save some Mormons despite their heterodox theology is up to Him.

 

[steaver]

Wouldn't holding a book such as the Book of Mormon in equality with God's Word be idolatry and blasphemy?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Salty]

Wouldn't holding a book such as the Book of Mormon in equality with God's Word be idolatry and blasphemy?

God Bless! :thumbs:

Would that blasphemy include the "Apocrypha."
\
They are:

• The First Book of Esdras Tobit
• Judith
• Additions to Esther
• The Wisdom of Solomon
• Ecclesiasticus or the Wisdom of Jesus Son of Sirach
• Baruch and The Letter of Jeremiah
• Additions to Daniel:
• The First Book and Second of the Maccabees

Salty

 

[steaver]

Would that blasphemy include the "Apocrypha."

I would say yes. As well as ANY writings that are viewed as equal to the Holy Bible.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Linda64]

I would say yes. As well as ANY writings that are viewed as equal to the Holy Bible.

God Bless! :thumbs:

:thumbs: I agree.

The word apocrypha is derived from the Greek abscondita, which historically identified writings which had an obscure origin or which were heretical. In the Talmud the Jewish rabbis used this word to describe works which were not canonical Scripture. The term has come to be applied particularly to the 15 books added to the Roman Catholic Bible but ordinarily rejected by non-Catholics. These were written during the two hundred years preceding and one hundred years following Christ's birth. The Roman Catholic Church considers most of these writings to be part of the inspired Scripture. In 1546 the Council of Trent decreed that the canon of the O.T. should include them (except the Prayer of Manasseh and I and II Esdras) ... the decree pronounces an anathema upon anyone who "does not accept as sacred and canonical the aforesaid books in their entirety and with all their parts" (The Oxford Annotated Apocrypha, pp. x,xv).

Way of Life Encyclopedia

 

[Brian30755]

Mormonism teaches:
- God used to be a man on another planet and Mormon members
may become gods of their own worlds.1
- There are many gods.2
- The Trinity is three separate Gods.3
- Entrance into celestial heaven is by the consent of God and the
Mormon prophet Joseph Smith.4
- God has a body of flesh and bones.5
- God is married and produces spirit babies by having physical
relations with his goddess wife.6
- Jesus, Satan, and all of us are spirit brothers and sisters
procreated in a pre-existent spirit life.7
- God had relations with Mary to make Jesus’ body.8
- You must shed your own blood for the forgiveness of some sins.9
- Good works are necessary for the forgiveness of sins.10
Be careful. Rarely will they mention these 'higher' doctrines. Therefore, you really don't know what they are teaching until long after you have joined. Be warned.

Found this here: http://www.carm.org/warning/warning.htm

 

[steaver]

Joel Olstien was on Fox News Sunday and said he believes Romney is a Christian.

When asked about Joseph Smith finding gold plates in new york and God being a man once, he replied he did not get into those areas of theology. He was just happy Mitt said he was a Christian.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Trotter]

DHK and Brian30755 are right on the money.

Mormonism IS NOT Christianity. Just look at the list Brian posted, and there are a lot more.

Did you know that the Mormon's have ongoing inspiration? Everything their leaders say is equal to scripture to them, and I do mean that literally. Do a little research on it.

According to the Mormons, Jesus and Satan are brothers. Does that sound like Christianity to you? how about God and Mary having a tryst to conceive Christ (so much for a virgin birth)? or men becoming gods and having many "spiritual" wives, with whom they have "celestial" sex and produce "spiritual offspring" with which they use to populate the other worlds and universes they will create... just as God Himself created us and ours?

How about heaven? Ask a Mormon about it. they don't believe in hell, but they do heaven. Heaven is deivided into three [arts. The outer part only has access to the Holy Spirit, and is where the unfaithful go. the second part has access to Jesus and the Spirit, but not the Father, and is where Christains and Mormons who did not fulfill everything go. the inner part has access to all three of the Trinity, and is reserved for Mormons who baptised for the dead and participated in temple marriages and so forth.

Christian? Far from it...

 

[BobRyan]

What if Mormons came up with

"Joseph Smith sinless like Christ"
What if they started "praying to Joseph Smith"?

What if they sanctioned a program of torturing Christians for being "heretics" instead of Mormons?

What if they declared that all scripture is subject to the traditions of the Mormon church?

What if they inserted the book of Mormon INTO the Bible itself stating that the REAL Bible was now the combination of all of Josephs Smith's writings AND the 66 books of scripture as ONE book.

What if they insisted that whoever is the head of the Mormon church today - should be the arbiter and judge for ALL Christian denominations?

 

[steaver]

When or where do we draw the line?

It all goes back to "born-again".

But can one be born-again and yet even after reading all the scriptures still believe such things?

God Bless! :thumbs: