Moses or Christ? Paul's Reply to Dispensational Error

[Martin Marprelate]

Israel of the Old Testament is not the church which is the body of Christ. Abraham was not a Christian.

John 8:56. "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
I deny the very concept of 'replacement theology.' It is just a stick that Dispensationalists pick up to try to beat the rest of us with.
The correct term would be 'Fulfillment' or 'Inclusion' Theology.' 'For He Himself is our peace, who has made both [Jew and Gentile] one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross' (Eph. 2:14-16).
The inclusion of the Gentiles is all over the O.T., starting with Genesis 12:3.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Israel of the Old Testament is not the church which is the body of Christ. Abraham was not a Christian.

Stephen right before being stoned to death spoke this: "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"[Acts 7:37-38]

Stephen had no problem calling OT Israel the church, and neither should you.

 

[SovereignGrace]

FYI, ICYDK, that wasn’t Stephen that was speaking…

Acts Chapter 6

10​	And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake.

Luke Chapter 21

15​	for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to withstand or to gainsay.

Matthew Chapter 10

19​	But when they deliver you up, be not anxious how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what ye shall speak.
20​	For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.

Sure it was Stephen speaking, as those words came from his vocal cords. It was the Spirit speaking through him, but he was the one speaking those audible words they heard.

 

[Ascetic X]

Stephen right before being stoned to death spoke this: "This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"[Acts 7:37-38]

Stephen had no problem calling OT Israel the church, and neither should you.

OT Israel was an assembly of followers of Moses, but not the assembly of born again Christians.

 

[Ascetic X]

John 8:56. "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
I deny the very concept of 'replacement theology.' It is just a stick that Dispensationalists pick up to try to beat the rest of us with.
The correct term would be 'Fulfillment' or 'Inclusion' Theology.' 'For He Himself is our peace, who has made both [Jew and Gentile] one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross' (Eph. 2:14-16).
The inclusion of the Gentiles is all over the O.T., starting with Genesis 12:3.

It is called Replacement Theology because proponents think wrongly that the church has replaced national Israel and God has no plans or promises for the offspring of Abraham. But in 1948, God ordained that national Israel exist again.

I repeat: in Christ they are one, He creates one new man from the two, but this oneness does not exist outside the one body of Christ. Just as in Christ there is neither male nor female.

But would you say in the physical realm, there is neither male nor female?

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Jew and gentile are one only when they are in Christ, born again, not before.

1 Corinthians 10:32

Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.

 

[kyredneck]

Your personal attack is not necessary. Nor is shouting with bold text.

Your quotes are about the church, the body of Christ, which is different from national Israel.

This is why we have an Old Testament and a New Testament.

And this is what irks me about dispensationalism. You guys fracture the book into two separate entities, when it is one continuous book. The foundation of the NT scriptures is the OT scriptures. Without the OT, we have no NT. And lets say you are right for argument's sake. Your argument leads to this, the NT is not for the Jews today. If the OT is not for us today, then the NT is not for the Jews today. Are you willing to go that far with your belief?

Amen Willis! Spot on. The two comprise our Holy Bible in which "the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New revealed".

 

[Ascetic X]

Amen Willis! Spot on. The two comprise our Holy Bible in which "the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New revealed".

But notice: there are two different testaments. Old and New. You can eat bacon now. Under the Old Covenant, it was forbidden.

John 1:17

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

But notice: there are two different testaments. Old and New. You can eat bacon now. Under the Old Covenant, it was forbidden.

John 1:17

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

AGAIN:

And this is what irks me about dispensationalism. You guys fracture the book into two separate entities, when it is one continuous book. The foundation of the NT scriptures is the OT scriptures. Without the OT, we have no NT. And let’s say you are right for argument's sake. Your argument leads to this, the NT is not for the Jews today. If the OT is not for us today, then the NT is not for the Jews today. Are you willing to go that far with your belief?

 

[Ascetic X]

Do you eat bacon?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Do you eat bacon?

Yes, and Jewish Christians can eat bacon. The only question is if they like the taste.

 

[Ascetic X]

Yes, and Jewish Christians can eat bacon. The only question is if they like the taste.

Then there is a discontinuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Two different dispensations or covenants governing those who believe in God.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Then there is a discontinuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament.

Two different dispensations or covenants governing those who believe in God.

None are saying that EVERYTHING remained the same when the law was fulfilled. But there is a lot more continuity between the two than discontinuity.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you eat bacon?

I just had two BLT’s and an extra couple slices on the side earlier and enjoyed every bite.

 

[SovereignGrace]

OT Israel was an assembly of followers of Moses, but not the assembly of born again Christians.

Can someone be saved without being born again? If so, then how?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It is called Replacement Theology because proponents think wrongly that the church has replaced national Israel and God has no plans or promises for the offspring of Abraham. But in 1948, God ordained that national Israel exist again.

The Church has not replaced national Israel. National Israel was destroyed in AD 70. There is a country that calls itself 'Israel.' It is the centre of homosexuality in the Levant. 'Know therefore that only they which are of faith are the children of Abraham. Our Lord told the Jewish leaders of His day, "You are of your father the devil." Believers of all nations, tribes and tongues are God's people, grafted in to the Jewish vine.

I repeat: in Christ they are one, He creates one new man from the two, but this oneness does not exist outside the one body of Christ. Just as in Christ there is neither male nor female.

But would you say in the physical realm, there is neither male nor female?

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Amen! Jewishness, enslavement, sex, nationality - none of them are barriers to being God's people. Rev. 7:9f.

Jew and gentile are one only when they are in Christ, born again, not before.

1 Corinthians 10:32

Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.

Exactly! Because they are all one in Christ Jesus. Unbelieving Jews were never the people of God. 'Then I swore in My wrath, "They shall never enter My rest!"' 'So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.' It may well be that there will be a revival among the Jewish people; I certainly hope so and Romans 11 seems to suggest it. But I also pray for revival among the Palestinian and Iranian people, and there are, I think, more signs of Iranians coming to Christ than there are of Israelis doing the same.

 

[Ascetic X]

The Church has not replaced national Israel. National Israel was destroyed in AD 70. There is a country that calls itself 'Israel.'

Psalm 94:14

For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

Romans 11:1

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


"Shall nation will be born in a day?" is a phrase from Isaiah 66:8 (NKJV/NIV), questioning if a country can be created instantly, often interpreted as a prophecy. It is widely used to describe the creation of modern Israel on May 14, 1948, when independence was declared in a single day, often considered a miraculous fulfillment of this scripture.

The verse (Isaiah 66:8) asks, "Shall a land be born in one day? Or shall a nation be brought forth in a moment?" The verse itself suggests an highly unusual, fast-tracked, divine occurrence.

Modern Fulfillment (Israel 1948): On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion declared the independence of Israel in Tel Aviv, which is often cited as the only modern example of a nation born instantly, just three years after the Holocaust.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@Ascetic X


Can someone be saved without being born again? If so, then how?


Care to address this?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Psalm 94:14

For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

Romans 11:1

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


"Shall nation will be born in a day?" is a phrase from Isaiah 66:8 (NKJV/NIV), questioning if a country can be created instantly, often interpreted as a prophecy. It is widely used to describe the creation of modern Israel on May 14, 1948, when independence was declared in a single day, often considered a miraculous fulfillment of this scripture.

The verse (Isaiah 66:8) asks, "Shall a land be born in one day? Or shall a nation be brought forth in a moment?" The verse itself suggests an highly unusual, fast-tracked, divine occurrence.

Modern Fulfillment (Israel 1948): On May 14, 1948, David Ben-Gurion declared the independence of Israel in Tel Aviv, which is often cited as the only modern example of a nation born instantly, just three years after the Holocaust.

Ppl kept saying that when that happened in 1948 the “this generation” would see this fulfilled in their day. A biblical generation is 40 years, and yet nothing. That’s why the book was written about how there were 88 reasons why the rapture would take place in 1988.

 

[Ascetic X]

Ppl kept saying that when that happened in 1948 the “this generation” would see this fulfilled in their day. A biblical generation is 40 years, and yet nothing. That’s why the book was written about how there were 88 reasons why the rapture would take place in 1988.

False prophets make failed predictions.

If we knew the exact minute Christ will return, what benefit would that be for us?

People come up with predictions to gain followers and to sell books.

 

[SovereignGrace]

For the third time:

@Ascetic X

Can someone be saved without being born again? If so, then how?

Care to address this?