Most Evil Person in American History

[Van]

It was the south that held 3 million slaves. Those slaves were beaten, abused, chained, and murdered.

This statement is baloney, and your constant repetition of the baloney that is this statement, and your absolute refusal to even try to prove it, do not come close to making it not baloney.

And baloney it is.

Given your maniacal switching from 10 million to 3 million, perhaps you should just claim there was 6.5 million slaves, give or take 3.5 million.

:laugh:

This is all they have, name calling (baloney) and misrepresentation. Did I say 10 million slaves were held in the south? Nope. Did I say 10 million slaves were brought to the Americas (north,central,south) in chains? Yes.

All these deniers do is post one falsehood and insult after another, running from these facts:

1) The south seceded before Lincoln took office.

2) The south seceded to preserve slavery.

3) The south fired on Fort Sumter, starting the hostilities.

4) 3 Million Slaves were held in the South, and these slaves were being beaten, abused, chained and murdered. Does that mean all 3 million were castrated? Nope. Raped? Nope.
Beaten? Nope. Chained? Nope. But these monstrosities happened to that group of 3 million slaves.

The Civil War was caused by slavery, with the North trying to end it and the South trying to preserve it.

 

[OldRegular]

1) It was the south who seceded before Lincoln took office.
2) It was the south who seceded to preserve slavery.
3) It was the south who fired on Fort Sumter.
4) It was the south that held 3 million slaves. Those slaves were beaten, abused, chained, and murdered. Note the effort in almost every post to change the subject to Communism, or Progressives, or Unconstitutional actions, but not one of these "good ol boys" admit that slavery caused the civil war. Like those who deny the Holocaust, the crimes against humanity are hidden from "their" good ol boy history.

Van: You are bearing False Witness and doing it repeatedly. You really should consider what Scripture says about those who bear False Witness!

Exodus 20:16. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Deuteronomy 5:20. Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Deuteronomy 19:16-19
16. If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17. Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18. And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19. Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

Proverbs 6:16-19
16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 12:17. He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

Proverbs 14:5. A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.

Proverbs 19:5. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

Proverbs 19:9. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

Proverbs 21:28. A false witness shall perish: but the man that heareth speaketh constantly.

Proverbs 25:18. A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.

Matthew 15:19.. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Matthew 19:18. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 26:59. Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Mark 10:19. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Mark 14:56. For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.

Mark 14:57. And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Romans 13:9. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Particularly egregious and untrue is your statement:

It was the south that held 3 million slaves. Those slaves were beaten, abused, chained, and murdered. Note the effort in almost every post to change the subject to Communism, or Progressives, or Unconstitutional actions, but not one of these "good ol boys" admit that slavery caused the civil war. Like those who deny the Holocaust, the crimes against humanity are hidden from "their" good ol boy history.

Furthermore it is a stupid statement. People do not normally destroy their property!

 

[poncho]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Forty-Eighters who became high ranking Union commanders included Colonel Friedrich Salomon, Ninth Wisconsin, Colonel Fritz Anneke, Thirty Fourth Wisconsin and Colonel Konrad Krez, Twenty Seventh Wisconsin. Communist journalist Karl Heinzen wrote: “If you have to blow up half a continent and cause a bloodbath to destroy the party of barbarism, you should have no scruples of conscience. Anyone who would not joyously sacrifice his life for the satisfaction of exterminating a million barbarians is not a true republican.” Heinzen came to this country and supported Lincoln. [/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Joseph Weydemeyer had to flee Germany when the Communist Revolution failed. In London he belonged to the Communist League and was a close friend of Marx and Engels. He came to this country in 1851, supported Lincoln, maintained his close friendship with Marx and became a Brigadier General in the Union Army. [/FONT] [FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Dedicated socialist Richard Hinton had to leave England. In this country he became a Union colonel, a Radical Republican and an associate of maniac John Brown’s. So was Allan Pinkerton, who financed him. At one meeting with Brown, Pinkerton told his son: “Look well upon that man. He is greater than Napoleon and just as great as George Washington.” Yes, Pinkerton was the great detective who founded the agency that bears his name. Why didn’t you know that? In Kansas, mass murderer Brown enjoyed the support of wealthy Yankees (the Secret Six). August Bondi and Charles Kaiser, who worked with Brown there, were Forty Eighters. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan30.htm[/FONT]​

 

[OldRegular]

Poncho,

What you are reporting is new stuff to me. I have read some of the link and will read more. Given what Sherman did in his march to the sea he must have been a disciple of "Karl Heinzen", or of Satan himself, because he practiced a scorched earth policy. That, along with the carpetbaggers, is the reason there was so much hatred of the north after the war.

 

[agedman]

Scriptures?????

Van,

Where in the Scriptures is slavery condemned as a sin?

There is NO Scriptures in which slavery is condemned.

The Scriptures REGULATE the treatment, but do not condemn as sin, slavery.

Seems you are putting your view of what constitutes a moral evil above what God would indicate.

 

[Van]

Folks, there you have it, at least one of the "good ol boys" of the south now (in 2014) deny the slavery practiced in the south was evil, sinful, vulgar, horrible, and an atrocity.

No further comment needed now or ever. Will TND or Salty stand up for truth and condemn Old Regular's assertion? Time will tell.

 

[Van]

Not all northerners were saints, and not all southerners were scoundrels, but two wrongs to not make a right. The Civil War was caused by slavery, with the north trying to end it, and the south trying to preserve it. The southern leaders who took us into war to preserve the monstrosity of slavery rank among the most evil leaders in American history.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

I contend that indeed the South fought the war to preserve slavery, but the North fought the war to preserve the Union.

Southern slavery was wrong because it was based only on kidnapping and the sale of human beings as chattel. It was not a matter of conquest, criminality, or debt.

 

[OldRegular]

I contend that indeed the South fought the war to preserve slavery, but the North fought the war to preserve the Union.

Southern slavery was wrong because it was based only on kidnapping and the sale of human beings as chattel. It was not a matter of conquest, criminality, or debt.

There is no doubt that many of the slave owners in the South wanted to preserve slavery. In post #30 "thisnumbersdisconnected " presents some useful information on slave ownership in the South. The vast majority of Southerners were not fighting to preserve slavery but for freedom from Northern oppression and invasion.

Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union. Though that might have been a noble goal it also resulted in the deaths of ~ 800,000 people and continued oppression of the South for about 100 years!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There is no doubt that many of the slave owners in the South wanted to preserve slavery. In post #30 "thisnumbersdisconnected " presents some useful information on slave ownership in the South. The vast majority of Southerners were not fighting to preserve slavery but for freedom from Northern oppression and invasion.

Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union. Though that might have been a noble goal it also resulted in the deaths of ~ 800,000 people and continued oppression of the South for about 100 years!

And now "the Powers that Be" are oppressing the North in the pursuit of profit. Its an old song brother. The Rich get Richer.

Lastly my dear Brother OR, who do you honestly believe rules any nation? The apparent rulers, or the real ones behind the scenes who manipulate a nation's finances for their own benefit?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

There is no doubt that many of the slave owners in the South wanted to preserve slavery. In post #30 "thisnumbersdisconnected " presents some useful information on slave ownership in the South. The vast majority of Southerners were not fighting to preserve slavery but for freedom from Northern oppression and invasion.

Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union. Though that might have been a noble goal it also resulted in the deaths of ~ 800,000 people and continued oppression of the South for about 100 years!

I think the majority of the South fought as pawns of the wealthy slave holders who only cared about keeping their slaves and didn't mind a few thousand poor non-slave holding whites dying preserve their peculiar institution. Theses were indeed wicked men.

I hope no one thinks I am defending the North. The majority cared no more about freeing slaves than the Southeners did. They did seem to want it To preserve the Union either way regardless of what happened to slavery.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Van,

Where in the Scriptures is slavery condemned as a sin?

Excellent question.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

They did seem to want it To preserve the Union either way regardless of what happened to slavery.

Yeah ... on their terms, keeping the South undeveloped, agrarian and beholden to Northern industry for their comforts. Some "preservation," particularly when it was maintained by taxes, "tariffs" charged across state lines, within the borders of the United States, and intellectual elitism that was demonstrated in political, not moral, behaviors.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Yeah ... on their terms, keeping the South undeveloped, agrarian and beholden to Northern industry for their comforts. Some "preservation," particularly when it was maintained by taxes, "tariffs" charged across state lines, within the borders of the United States, and intellectual elitism that was demonstrated in political, not moral, behaviors.

Thanks, I was going to continue on in a similar vein but phone rang. (Kind of an exciting day. My daughter-in-law's leukaemia is back and we just found out they have found a bone marrow donor match!) Your statement here is about what I wanted to say, but probably much better than I would have.

There was evil on both sides, but most of the men who died were the pawns of the evil self serving wealthy land owners or business men. There is no moral high ground in the US Civil War.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Thanks, I was going to continue on in a similar vein but phone rang. (Kind of an exciting day. My daughter-in-law's leukaemia is back and we just found out they have found a bone marrow donor match!) Your statement here is about what I wanted to say, but probably much better than I would have.

There was evil on both sides, but most of the men who died were the pawns of the evil self serving wealthy land owners or business men. There is no moral high ground in the US Civil War.

Exactly! :thumbsup:

 

[Salty]

Folks, there you have it, at least one of the "good ol boys" of the south now (in 2014) deny the slavery practiced in the south was evil, sinful, vulgar, horrible, and an atrocity.

No further comment needed now or ever. Will TND or Salty stand up for truth and condemn Old Regular's assertion? Time will tell.

When did I or TND ever say that slavery was NOT evil or horrible.

Not all northerners were saints, and not all southerners were scoundrels, but two wrongs to not make a right. The Civil War was caused by slavery, with the north trying to end it, and the south trying to preserve it. The southern leaders who took us into war to preserve the monstrosity of slavery rank among the most evil leaders in American history.

Seems like you are finally loosing up a little bit.

and BTW - have you check to see what the Constitution of the CSA said about slaves?

 

[OldRegular]

Van,
In the interests of saving me valuable time I am going to follow your practice; repeat my posts. The difference is that mine do not bear false witness!

1) It was the south who seceded before Lincoln took office.
2) It was the south who seceded to preserve slavery.
3) It was the south who fired on Fort Sumter.
4) It was the south that held 3 million slaves. Those slaves were beaten, abused, chained, and murdered. Note the effort in almost every post to change the subject to Communism, or Progressives, or Unconstitutional actions, but not one of these "good ol boys" admit that slavery caused the civil war. Like those who deny the Holocaust, the crimes against humanity are hidden from "their" good ol boy history.

Van: You are bearing False Witness and doing it repeatedly. You really should consider what Scripture says about those who bear False Witness!

Exodus 20:16. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Deuteronomy 5:20. Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Deuteronomy 19:16-19
16. If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17. Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18. And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19. Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

Proverbs 6:16-19
16. These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 12:17. He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

Proverbs 14:5. A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.

Proverbs 19:5. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.

Proverbs 19:9. A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.

Proverbs 21:28. A false witness shall perish: but the man that heareth speaketh constantly.

Proverbs 25:18. A man that beareth false witness against his neighbour is a maul, and a sword, and a sharp arrow.

Matthew 15:19.. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Matthew 19:18. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 26:59. Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Mark 10:19. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

Mark 14:56. For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not together.

Mark 14:57. And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,

Luke 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Romans 13:9. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Particularly egregious and untrue is your statement:

4) It was the south that held 3 million slaves. Those slaves were beaten, abused, chained, and murdered. Note the effort in almost every post to change the subject to Communism, or Progressives, or Unconstitutional actions, but not one of these "good ol boys" admit that slavery caused the civil war. Like those who deny the Holocaust, the crimes against humanity are hidden from "their" good ol boy history.

Furthermore it is a stupid statement. People do not normally destroy their property!

 

[OldRegular]

And now "the Powers that Be" are oppressing the North in the pursuit of profit. Its an old song brother. The Rich get Richer.

Lastly my dear Brother OR, who do you honestly believe rules any nation? The apparent rulers, or the real ones behind the scenes who manipulate a nation's finances for their own benefit?

There is little doubt that we have a ruling elite in this country. Does any unknown group exercise undue control over these people? I don't know but I wonder. I do believe George Soros is responsible for the election of Obama.

 

[OldRegular]

There was evil on both sides, but most of the men who died were the pawns of the evil self serving wealthy land owners or business men. There is no moral high ground in the US Civil War.

Is any war moral. Certainly the war of Northern Aggression was not and it could have been avoided if Lincoln had not invaded the South.

The Revolutionary War and WWII come the closest to being moral wars in my opinion!

 

[Crabtownboy]

Is any war moral. Certainly the war of Northern Aggression was not and it could have been avoided if Lincoln had not invaded the South.

The Revolutionary War and WWII come the closest to being moral wars in my opinion!

Certainly slavery was not moral.