Most Muslims doubt Israel can exist and meet the needs of the Palestinians.

[carpro]

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=185

From June, 2003

U.S. Favors Israel

U.S. policies toward the Middle East come under considerable criticism in the new poll. In 20 of 21 populations surveyed – Americans are the only exception – pluralities or majorities believe the United States favors Israel over the Palestinians too much. This opinion is shared in Israel; 47% of Israelis believe that the U.S. favors Israel too much, while 38% say the policy is fair and 11% think the U.S. favors the Palestinians too much.

But Israel is the only country, aside from the U.S., in which a majority says that U.S. policies lead to more stability in the region. Most Muslim populations think U.S. policies bring less stability to the Middle East, while people elsewhere are divided in their evaluations of the impact of U.S. policies.

More broadly, the postwar survey asked people their views on the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians. By wide margins, most Muslim populations doubt that a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that the rights and needs of the Palestinian people are met. Eight-in-ten residents of the Palestinian Authority express this opinion. But Arabs in Israel, who voice the same criticisms of U.S. policy in the Middle East as do other Muslims, generally believe that a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that Palestinian rights and needs are addressed. In fact, Arabs in Israel are nearly as likely as Jews to hold that opinion (62% of Arabs, 68% of Jews).

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Carpro,

Thank you for that objective polling data for which we can come to a more objective opinion based on objective data. I think it is particularly encouraging when you look at this part:

But Arabs in Israel, who voice the same criticisms of U.S. policy in the Middle East as do other Muslims, generally believe that a way can be found for the state of Israel to exist so that Palestinian rights and needs are addressed. In fact, Arabs in Israel are nearly as likely as Jews to hold that opinion (62% of Arabs, 68% of Jews).

I find it further to be encouraging that there is a spreading appetite for democracy and democratic reforms throughout the Middle East in general:

Despite soaring anti-Americanism and substantial support for Osama bin Laden, there is considerable appetite in the Muslim world for democratic freedoms. The broader, 44-nation survey shows that people in Muslim countries place a high value on freedom of expression, freedom of the press, multi-party systems and equal treatment under the law. This includes people living in kingdoms such as Jordan and Kuwait, as well as those in authoritarian states like Uzbekistan and Pakistan. In fact, many of the Muslim publics polled expressed a stronger desire for democratic freedoms than the publics in some nations of Eastern Europe, notably Russia and Bulgaria.

The postwar update finds that in most Muslim populations, large majorities continue to believe that Western-style democracy can work in their countries. This is the case in predominantly Muslim countries like Kuwait (83%) and Bangladesh (57%), but also in religiously diverse countries like Nigeria (75%). There are no substantive differences between Muslims and non-Muslims in Nigeria on this point. Only in Indonesia and Turkey do substantial percentages say democracy is a Western way of doing things that would not work in their countries (53%, 37%). ?

At the same time, most Muslims also support a prominent – and in some cases expanding – role for Islam and religious leaders in the political life of their countries. Yet that opinion does not diminish Muslim support for a system of governance that ensures the same civil liberties and political rights enjoyed by democracies.

In religiously diverse countries, Muslims generally favor keeping religion a private matter at the same rates as non-Muslims. In Nigeria, for example, six-in-ten Muslims and the same proportion of non-Muslims completely agree that religion should be kept separate from government policy. In Lebanon, there are only modest differences on this point between Muslims and non-Muslims.

Yes, there are still problems in the Middle East. Yes, the Muslims are not perfect (Neither are we though). But, yes, there is also hope for reform in the Middle East.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Robert J Hutton]

I couldn't give a hoot what muzzies think of Israel. The fact remains that God brought that nation into re-existence in 1948 and has kept it despite the frequent attacks made by hostile Arab states. There will never be peace in the middle east until Christ comes again to set up His reign. That nation will never be destroyed because the Lord has set it up in clear fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

The majority of Palestinians polled, according to the PEW research center, don't want to destroy Israel. They want peace and believe it can happen. Further, you should know that not all Palestinians are Muslims. Many of them are Christians and they would like to have peace there also. And finally, I care about having peace in Israel because I have several friends who live in Israel or whom have family in Israel, and I would like for them to be able to live without terrorism being commonplace. Their opinion counts because it shows that there is much hope rfor peace there regardless of what your pre-mil false theology says.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by Robert J Hutton:
I couldn't give a hoot what muzzies think of Israel. The fact remains that God brought that nation into re-existence in 1948 and has kept it despite the frequent attacks made by hostile Arab states. There will never be peace in the middle east until Christ comes again to set up His reign. That nation will never be destroyed because the Lord has set it up in clear fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

Amen!

And, as has been mentioned on other threads, Palestinian Christians are leaving Muslim controlled areas, including Bethlehem. They are among the persecuted.

http://www.jcpa.org/jl/vp490.htm

 

[carpro]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
Carpro,

Thank you for that objective polling data for which we can come to a more objective opinion based on objective data. I think it is particularly encouraging when you look at this part:

I find it further to be encouraging that there is a spreading appetite for democracy and democratic reforms throughout the Middle East in general:

Despite soaring anti-Americanism and substantial support for Osama bin Laden, there is considerable appetite in the Muslim world for democratic freedoms. The broader, 44-nation survey shows that people in Muslim countries place a high value on freedom of expression, freedom of the press, multi-party systems and equal treatment under the law. This includes people living in kingdoms such as Jordan and Kuwait, as well as those in authoritarian states like Uzbekistan and Pakistan. In fact, many of the Muslim publics polled expressed a stronger desire for democratic freedoms than the publics in some nations of Eastern Europe, notably Russia and Bulgaria.


Joseph Botwinick

It is my impression that the opinion that democracy cannot thrive in muslim countries is held primarily by Western nations. Especially the ones against helping the Iraqis establish one in the Middle East.

 

[LadyEagle]

http://www.melkite.org/sa31.htm

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Carpro,

I agree with that impression. It is further my impression that many of these Western Countries suffer from the superiority complex delusion.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Robert J Hutton:
I couldn't give a hoot what muzzies think of Israel. The fact remains that God brought that nation into re-existence in 1948 and has kept it despite the frequent attacks made by hostile Arab states. There will never be peace in the middle east until Christ comes again to set up His reign. That nation will never be destroyed because the Lord has set it up in clear fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

Your analysis of the return of Israel does not comport with Scripture:

Deuteronomy 30:1-4, KJV
1. And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2. And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3. That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

The return of Israel is conditional on Israel returning to God. Today that means believing in Jesus Christ. Most Israelis are agnostic/atheist. That can hardly be called returning to God.

 

[Robert J Hutton]

The last verse of Amos makes it clear that the Lord would plant the jews back in the land and that they would never be uprooted from it. Of course, it is commendable that many groups are seeking peace in the middle east but it won't happen. The muzzie groups who want to destroy Israel will not allow peace, this current situation will continue and get worse until Christ comes again. Don't pin false hopes on politicians who are often liars.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

 

[LadyEagle]

The return of Israel is conditional on Israel returning to God. Today that means believing in Jesus Christ. Most Israelis are agnostic/atheist. That can hardly be called returning to God.

Of course, you have proof that most are agnostic/atheist - ah, yes, I see your links. NOT!

But that's neither here nor there - too bad you are among those who have thrown in the towel on the Nation of Israel. God hasn't.

The truth of the matter is, there are Messianic Jews living there as we speak. God always has His remnant.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by Robert J Hutton:
Of course, it is commendable that many groups are seeking peace in the middle east but it won't happen. The muzzie groups who want to destroy Israel will not allow peace, this current situation will continue and get worse until Christ comes again. Don't pin false hopes on politicians who are often liars.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

1. Yes, the Muslim terrorists are trying to stop peace from occurring, just as are Jewish extremist organizations such as the Kahanists and members of Kach:

Kach

Kach and Kahane Chai

2. I am still hopeful that there can be peace in Israel, as are 62% of Palestinians and 68% of Israelis. Reciprocity is the first step towards real peace and a two state solution.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Robert J Hutton]

The problem with giving the pallies their own state is that it will become a training camp for muzzie terrorists. The current pallie govt. in gaza and the w. Bank cannot contain Hamas and their ilk. By all means try to get peace in the middle east but it will not happen until Christ comes again.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

 

[hillclimber]

Originally posted by Robert J Hutton:
The last verse of Amos makes it clear that the Lord would plant the jews back in the land and that they would never be uprooted from it. Of course, it is commendable that many groups are seeking peace in the middle east but it won't happen. The muzzie groups who want to destroy Israel will not allow peace, this current situation will continue and get worse until Christ comes again. Don't pin false hopes on politicians who are often liars.

Kind regards to all.

Bob

This is right on, except the inference that the politicians lies have any relevance. They are simply ignorant, and have false hopes that they can provide the formula for a lasting peace.

 

[hillclimber]

The nation of Israel is re-etablished and will once again be prominent in God's plan in his soon to be estblished Kingdom. Every citizen in Israel is under the exact same program of grace that all are under today, either excepting God's redemption through Christ, or rejecting it.

 

[just-want-peace]

By all means try to get peace in the middle east but it will not happen until Christ comes again.

Permanent peace, yes, temporary peace---when the anti-christ comes!

I can just see all the proclamations and adulations heaped upon this character who brings "peace" to the mid-east--only to be found out to be a liar and the scourge of any who fail to worship him!

MARANATHA!!!!!!!