Mothers,wives, and priorities

[Joy]

I'll just take one for now!

1) How is a woman having a job keeping her from having her primary focus on her home and husband? I work and my primary focus is on my wife and home. Where's the difference?

The difference is that God created man's focus to be on providing and protecting. He does this by earning the income to support his home.

The created role for a woman was to focus on the nurturing her children and adapting herself to her husband. Mothering and "wifing" (what a great non-word!) are how she keeps this focus. The focus of a career is the money that it brings.

If I could just stop for a moment and put this in proper perspective. I teach that homemaking should be a career, and I fight the affects that feminism has had on the church "toothe and and nail," but my choice to stay in my home does not make me more spriritual than any other woman who thinks or does differently. We are spritual because of who we are in Christ, not because of what we do for him. Just wanted to make that perfectly clear to those on both sides of the issue. I may shout pretty loudly from the roof tops-"There is a better way according to Scripture!" Indeed, that is what we call exhortation, sometimes reproof and rebuke, sometimes ironing sharpening iron.

 

[Molly]

I agree,Joy.

Clint,I read through some of the past topics on women working. I see how people working do get all flustered when someone states that a women's job is to be "the home"...but,from scripture we do see that is to be her domain. The women who work tend to become very defensive. Whether she can have a job and do that is up to her. I'm not judging anyone(haven't I said that before??? )...I'm just trying to get women to be challenged in their thinking and maybe look beyond their present box and see that it may be better another way. Noone that works has said that working is better,(there is no eveidence to prove that)so I am trying to figure out why they work or how they work and take care of priorities at home. I try to be teachable and if there is something I am doing that may not be best,I want to know so I can always improve. I try to listen to wise advice and godly counsel. Joy seems to be one of the wisest women on this board and I appreciate her words. The reason people become defensive is because they feel pesonally attacked. I don't get that. When I learn something new or different from what I am doing,I try really hard to conform my life to the teachings of Christ as I learn them.

So,my question still is,how do those who work manage the prioties--what job allows for that and what is your day like when you work?

It is a good discussion.

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Molly:
I'm just trying to get women to be challenged in their thinking and maybe look beyond their present box and see that it may be better another way.

We are just trying to do the same. Maybe stay at home moms need to look outside their present box to see that some women just may do something different with God's approval.

Originally posted by Molly:
The reason people become defensive is because they feel pesonally attacked. I don't get that.

Because you play "priestess" for a moment and tell them to repent and seek God's will as if you could even know where they stood before God! It is plain cruel and it isn't your place to do so. I would be offended as well!

I personally choose to stay at home with my daughter and I did the same with my sons when my ex wasn't between jobs. I personally prefer to be a stay at home mom, so I am not taking it as a "personal" attack. I think the judgemental attitude towards those who don't is wrong. I feel how you "keep your home" is a disputable matter and Paul said not to judge your brother over disputable matters. (Romans 14:1)

Again, I agree with Clint. Women who work today have a lot more time to spend with their children then the woman of Proverbs 31 did.

Even if the woman of Proverbs 31 worked at home, she did work and she did earn money. If this is your example of the only way, please tell me how you are working and earning money, while you are at home.

~Lorelei

 

[Molly]

I've never said a woman can not work...I have just stated that the home is to be the women's priority,it is to be her domain...

I do not earn money at all. I am totally dependent on my husband's income. I had thought about substitute teaching occasionally,but realized it would take too much time and I was afarid it would interfere with what I should be doing...now,God has me looking at homeschooling,which would satisfy God's desire for me to teach my children about God in a more intense way. I'm not saying anyone that works should repent...but if your home is not the priority,then yes,that woman would need to repent.It is not the working that I am concerned with,it is the biblical principle and teaching in Titus for the PRIORITIES. Can women that work have these priorities,that is what I am asking...I was wanting working women to share. you've heard the saying,"talk is cheap"-we can say all day we have those priorities,but look around in our culture...it is not evident by actions to me that we have these priorities(I'm not talking about the women on the bap board,I'm talking women in general.)

And,I am no priestess,and I never claim to have all the answers. I just like the discussions.

 

[redwhitenblue]

Mom, I disagree with you that having a child with a darcare worker then taking them away from that person is like having a parent walk out...please where did you come up with that concept? Special people come in our lives and sometimes leave our lives as well...the idea is that God places those people there sometimes only for a season so kids are not so vulnerable as to be wounded by taking them out of one daycare to another or placing them in school, it just means they are growing some more.

It's perfectly godly for the woman to help her husband in the means of fincances outside the home and it's also possible for the wife to serve all main functions and still guide her home.

karen

 

[Helen]

Let me add another side to this discussion.

Another side? It has another side????

I think so.

I am an editor. I work at home. It is not hard to get so caught up in a manuscript that I lose track of the time; or perhaps my author is under pressure due to a timeline and so I will put in extra hours in the day.

And what happens then? "Bianca, can you get something for us to eat? I'm jammed here."

Good mothering, eh?

The hours can slip by and all of a sudden it's an hour past Chris' bedtime and he has not had a bath for four or five days. But I don't have time.... I get his diapers on him and his sweatsuit (instead of pj's), give his teeth a hurried brush, wipe off his face, get his medibations down him and stuff him into bed.

Good mothering again...

Granted, these are not daily routines. Nevertheless, it is very easy for a stay-at-home mom to lose her sense of balance and priorities as well. That is not the sole province of the working mother. I will say that when I was teaching at the county (same hours my kids were in school, by the way), I seemed to have been a LOT more organized than I am now! I had to be. The kids knew what they could count on and when we would all have time together. They knew I would make time for them whenever they needed it, and we worked as a team with the house and yard.

Now the kids are mostly gone. Bianca is a junior and has so many activities, as well as running for rally commissioner for next year. Chris can't help. Barry is gone about half the time due to his epileptic sister in Australia (he is sure anyone who is a bigamist is nuts -- he has 'two women' legally and it drives him crazy! It is awfully hard on him.) So the house is mine; the yard is mine; turning the compost and cleaning out the chickens, mine; brushing the dogs is mine, as is the shopping and everything else.

And without people to work with, I'm far less organized! Things get done, but the timing can be crazy. I try to stick to the schedule I mentioned....I try....

And I think it was Karen who mentioned something early on that made me smile. Something about her husband and child needing a break from her.

When my oldest was 2 1/2, and before there were any others, I started to go bananas having just him all day. I adored him, but where was there even time for me to do ANYTHING by myself? So I enrolled him in a daycare for two or three mornings a week (can't remembe which now) and everything was SO much better. He loved it and I did, too. Granted, that's not the same as working full time outside the home, and I was there if he was sick or something, but I did understand what Karen was saying.

All in all, dear sisters, any one of us can lose our priorities at times. And any one of us can be wife and mom perfect occasionally, too! At least for a minute or two now and then!

But mostly we muddle along in the middle. Doing a pretty good job and praying to do better.

If the husband and wife agree on the course the wife is taking, then let's bug out of it. We are not Bathsheba with servants (at least I'm not!), and we do, on the other hand, have washers, dryers, lawn mowers, irons, showers, hot rollers, permanent press materials, supermarkets. Our servants are mechanical now, I guess. The Prov. 31 women got up to take care of her servants early in the day. I, for one, cannot take care of my machines at any hour of the day if something happens to them! And repairmen or new machines cost money.

It's a balance each of us must deal with ourselves. With the Lord in our lives, we will be shown the right way for each of us. Let our husbands be our judges as to how well we are doing, and let the Lord guide each of us to do better in the life He has given us.

God bless us all.

Helen

 

[10usNE1]

Helen,
I do so appreciate your "human" posts. I do believe that most everyone that reads these posts can sort out the "just a little too perfect" people from the "everyday, trying to mother to the best of their ability" people.
Helen, you are a breath of realistic air!! Thank you!!

Cindy

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Joy,
I really enjoyed readging your posts. You gave a great challenge to me look for the widows and fatherless in my church and seek as to how we may assit them. Thank you for that great reminder.


Lorelei,
Did you read verse 28? It says that her children rise up and call her blessed. Why do you think that is so? And how about verse 15? It says that she rises while it is early to provide food for her family. How about verse 21? It says that she is not concerned for the snow for she has already sewed all of the clothing for her family. Sounds very similar to the homekeeper in Titus two three through five. She serves in this order, God, husband, children, home, everything else is secondary.
Mr Kritzer,
In all honesty those positions you mentioned are not in the Bible. The positions of leadership in the Bible are held by men.


HCl

 

[Molly]

Helen,

I agree,anyone can fall short of good intentions,and lose the priorities as their focus...I,for one,have done that and will from time to time do that. Thanks for sharing that viewpoint! We are all human and until Christ calls us home,we will make mistakes. But,God,in His sufficient grace can refocus us as quick as we can lose sight of His ways. I'm thankful He does all things through me. He gives me everything I need to do His will. All of the credit goes to Him.

I don't think anyone is claiming perfection,although we strive for it at times.

You are right,a women staying home does not always mean she is fulfilling Titus 2.

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

Up until this point I have stayed out of the discussions as it seems neither side is going to change its mind. Overall I think the most balanced view presented here has been from Helen. I applaud her on it.

Now there is one point I will address.

Okay so say they do bond witha daycare worker. When they start school, is that person still in their life? Do they share and build on the bond that began as a child throughout their lives. No it is a relationship that merely comes to an end. Kind of like when a parent leaves for whatever reason (death or divorce) and those kids just build relationship after relationship the rest of their life and if they are blessed enough (as I was) to marry a wonderful man then FINALLY when they are grown they can give to their children what they were stripped of!

My wife does work full time and our child care is not provided by a day care center. We are lucky enough to have my wife's best friend, who also happens to be the person who got my wife back in chruch, and the youth pastor's wife as our childcare provider. She is a stay at home mom, except for the fact that she works for me. She loves both of my kids as if they are her own. I know that they are in a safe enviroment where they will learn good sound christian vaules when they are away from their parents. She will be in the children's lives for the rest of their life. When we had our first child we searched for a day care center, but could not find one that could accomadate the varied hours we needed. Therefore, we have always had either a family member or close friend as our child care provider. For us I am very glad that this is the option we have used as I know my children are safe and happy with her and her family.

Bill

(edited for typos)

[ May 01, 2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Bible Believing Bill ]

 

[donnA]

1) How is a woman having a job keeping her from having her primary focus on her home and husband? I work and my primary focus is on my wife and home. Where's the difference?

I'm glad you said that Clint, a husbands primary focus should be his family when he works. My husband works in a concrete factory, hs injured his back the first year we were married, so he now has a bad back, and as a mattre of fact has had some trouble with it for two weeks now. He doen't take time off for pain. He says the only reason he keeps working is us. Befire we married he worked when he wanted money. He's been employed and worked hard since our marriage 22 years ago, even through pain. His primary focus has not been his job, but his family and our needs. Thats what make a husband a good husband I think. I congradulate you Clint.

 

[donnA]

A woman can have a career, even from home. I work at home. And it does take away from the house. I even do stitching or crocheting while watching tv with my husband at night. So I work at my career for a lot of hours a day. I may not earn as much as if I worked outside the house, but I do earn, and I do work. Saying that working at home is not a career, just becasue I don't work in a big business building(we don't have any here), that I don't have a career, the brings down what I do, and belittles it. Well I'm aorry, my work, or what I do, or the money I earn are not less just becasue someone says they are. For years stay home moms have been thought to be less, becuase they did not work outside the hme, you have just done that to me and others like me who put a lot of effort into their work that they sell.

I do not earn money at all.

If the proverbs 31 woman is to be the model for a housewife, then she worked from home and earned money. It seems to me if you want to be proverbs 31 woman/housewife you'd have to do this also.

 

[Molly]

I was just saying that I do not earn money. That is just me personally. I do not do anything that earns any amount of income. I wasn't saying you can't earn money,never said that. I was just stating a fact about myself. I don't believe it is wrong to earn money or not earn money...Proverbs 31 is a great description of a godly woman. I have been referring to Titus ch 2 mainly,although I think proverbs 31 is excellent,as well.

 

[Molly]

So,are you saying it is unbiblical for a woman to not earn money?

 

[Molly]

I have been home since my children were born. I've never earned "real" income. I have made my home my area of where God uses my talents,gifts,etc. He wants me there,not to earn any money(although I think it is fine if someone can and does),but to make a nice organized peaceful home for my family,to love and teach my children,to uphold my marriage,to submit to my husband,those are my priorities,not earning money. But if you do something that earns money and it doesn't interfere with those other things,I think that is great!

I'm not understanding your statment,katie,about having to earn money like the proverbs 31 women did. You said it offended you,did something I say offend you? I'm sorry of it did. Just because I don't earn money does not mean it is wrong to earn money,but I do believe that the husband should be the main provider.(that has been stated before). Just wanted to clarify.

Thanks for *listening*.

 

[hollyberry710]

My husband, SBC all his 44 years and a former Men's Sunday School teacher would be INSULTED if I felt that my primary priority was to take care of him. I would never dream of letting him shoulder the entire financial burdens of our household. He would never dream of not having me out in the business world, witnessing for Christ and offering strength and support to other Christian business people.

BTW, our daughter skipped a grade, andhas always attended Christian schools. WeE are both former teachers and we wouldn't consider homeschooling. Far too large a task.

Somebody I know thinks that Christians will be Raptured before the Antichrist appears because so many good Christians fight with each other and set a negative example

 

[Momto3JD]

HollyBerry- Academics aren't the telltale sign that a child had the best growing enviornment. In fact I am sure your daughter would have skipped a grade had you taken the time to stay home while she was young.

Listen we are all trying to live as Christ would have us to live and that is ALL we can do. But we should strive for better and the best. I figure it this way, I prepare the meals. I can feed my kids from scratch and give them the best or I can buy prepared dinners and look for the healthiest available even though (for this examples' sake) it isn't as good for my family as the meal from scratch. Am I giving my family good or acceptable or am I giving them the best? Let's just strive to give our families the best and if we are good parents then we are the best for our kids! After all, God chose us to carry, deliver and nurture our children!

 

[redwhitenblue]

holly, thanks for that simply put post...I personally appreciated that one

karen

 

[Clint Kritzer]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of where Joy gets the notion that the Proverbs 31 woman did all of these works from home but even more importantly I'm waiting for a reply on her changing the Ruth story to meet her view.

I thought about this some. What Joy has done by saying that Ruth was actively seeking Boaz as a kindred redeemer is to take God out of the whole story. It was because of Divine providence that Boaz met Ruth while she worked. This is a TERRIBLE twisting of one of the most beautiful stories of the Old Testament and it is just plain wrong. This is not a matter of interpretation. The text is there for all to see. If any of you have never read Ruth, it's very short, easily done in one sitting.

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Ruth+1-4&ve rsion=NIV-IBS&showfn=yes&showxref=yes&language=english

Ruth and Boaz were the great grandparents of King David and eventually of Jesus Christ Himself! This came about by an act of God during one of the most turbulent times in Jewish history when many Jewish people had turned from God. Having Ruth "actively seeking" a husband takes all of the beauty out of the story.

[ May 01, 2002, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]

 

[Molly]

Does it say that Ruth did not care for her children,and worked instead? I'm not seeing the change of priorities as God's call on her life as a women. Yes,God's providential plan allowed for Ruth and Boaz to meet. I guess when I look at your example,I ask,is this the principle of what the Bible teaches,overall...is it the jest of what God teaches about the roles of men and women? Or ,is this the exception? I look in the NT and see definite roles of men and women,a story in the OT does not cancel that out...nothing in the Bible contradicts other teachings. Just my thoughts. I think Ruth and Boaz is a lovely occurence and God had a plan...it pointed to the saviour,that's why it is in the Bible,not to teach roles of men and women. Remember,context rules...anything can be taken out of context to support a multitude of things...I don't see this as canceling out Titus 2 at all. The priorities of the women are to be the home and all that's there...homekeepers...keepers at home....how else can I say it?

Did you read that John MAc sermon that I posted down below?