Murders - more than just the numbers

[canadyjd]

Here's an article I found on the topic, from an outside of America view, but still pertinent.

How Intellectuals Train the Underclass to Feel Helpless

This is insightful info about the mindset certain groups of people find themselves in.

Again, race is not the determining factor. A mindset of helplessness and dependence on government programs that provide a bare minimum existence lead to acceptance of illegal activity as inevitable for them.

peace to you

 

[Reynolds]

I did. 58 percent is significantly greater than 38 percent.

You apparently have burr under your saddle when it comes to me. Therefore, I’ll just wish you well and say...

Thanks for the conversation

peace to you

I have no burr. My problem with you is twisting words. I clearly said "petcentage wise" and you responded with a gross numbers interpretation. I sm not sure if you are intentionally dishonest or simply have reading comprehension issues.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

In spite of my old age; I finally recalled one other thing - when I first herd this it was the media of the USSR. It was trying to point out how the communists were reporting the news, from only the govts point of view.

This dates back to the peak of the Cold War when, in a hint of détente, the Soviet and American track and field teams would hold an annual meet, with alternating home field. After one of those competitions the Soviet leader (or maybe Pravda) supposedly said words to the effect of "Our glorious Soviet team achieved a second-place finish, while the Americans came in next to last."

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I tried to point out the obvious obfuscation going on in the BOP statistics, but evidently made no impact. So, lets hit it a bit harder this time.

The stats, when adjusted to include Hispanics, look more like this (see https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p18.pdf):

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I tried to point out the obvious obfuscation going on in the BOP statistics, but evidently made no impact. So, lets hit it a bit harder this time.

For those unable to access the uploaded JPG, the key comparative stats are these:

Whites comprise about 60.7% of the population, and account for 28.3% of prisoners.

Blacks comprise about 13.4% of the population, and account for 37.1% of prisoners.

Hispanics comprise about 18.1% of the population, and account for 31.2% of prisoners.​

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

From the BOP info listed above: whites make up 58 percent of prison population, blacks 38 percent.

Take another look at the stats and what I posted regarding their deceptive nature. I just posted a more relevant breakdown that pretty much negates your conclusions.

For those unable to access the uploaded JPG, the key comparative stats are these:

Whites comprise about 60.7% of the population, and account for 28.3% of prisoners.

Blacks comprise about 13.4% of the population, and account for 37.1% of prisoners.

Hispanics comprise about 18.1% of the population, and account for 31.2% of prisoners.​

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

From the article and other discussions, a lot of emphasis is placed on “percentage” statistics. For instance, you will see a statistic that Americans of African descent make up 13(?) percent of population, but commit 30(?) percent of violent crimes. That scares people and can be used by some to suggest Americans of African descent are more prone to commit crime in general and violent crime in particular.

I had commented that such statistics may be better understood if other elements were added. For instance, Americans of African descent may make up 13(?) percent of the population, but make up 30(?) percent of population under 25 in any given community. Perhaps 60(?) percent of high school drop outs or people without jobs, or victims of assault or abuse.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that race is not, or should not be, the determining factor in crime statistics.

I would guess that nearly 100 percent of criminals have little/no relationship with God.

It isn’t wrong to say race shouldn’t be the determining factor, but no one here is saying it should be.

The point is that the predominate cultures of the black and Hispanic populations are skewing the results. When more of them embrace a better culture, then the crime statistics will change.

The same can be said of whites. When more embrace a better culture they will commit fewer crimes.

And of course being born again would be the best cultural change for everyone.

 

[777]

Crime is way too complex to simplify - what "causes" crime is a multitude of factors.

For those unable to access the uploaded JPG, the key comparative stats are these:

Whites comprise about 60.7% of the population, and account for 28.3% of prisoners.

Blacks comprise about 13.4% of the population, and account for 37.1% of prisoners.

Hispanics comprise about 18.1% of the population, and account for 31.2% of prisoners.​

.yep, liberal Pew has similar numbers:

The gap between the number of blacks and whites in prison is shrinking

you know, the FBoP's numbers makes sense - there are three and only three races, but they call "American Indians" a race but call hispanics (rightly, IMO) and"ethnic group". and here's their breakdown there:


BOP Statistics: Inmate Ethnicity

"Hispanics" must be the only ethnic group they know of.

 

[canadyjd]

I have no burr. My problem with you is twisting words. I clearly said "petcentage wise" and you responded with a gross numbers interpretation. I sm not sure if you are intentionally dishonest or simply have reading comprehension issues.

Thanks for the conversation.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Take another look at the stats and what I posted regarding their deceptive nature. I just posted a more relevant breakdown that pretty much negates your conclusions.

I see your point. BOP was reporting Hispanic as white, which distorted the numbers.

I stand corrected.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

For those unable to access the uploaded JPG, the key comparative stats are these:

Whites comprise about 60.7% of the population, and account for 28.3% of prisoners.

Blacks comprise about 13.4% of the population, and account for 37.1% of prisoners.

Hispanics comprise about 18.1% of the population, and account for 31.2% of prisoners.​

I didn’t see those particular stats, but I did find info on prisoners sentenced 2018.

Black: 33 percent
White: 30 percent
Hispanic: 22 percent
Other: 13 percent

Perhaps that represents a significant reduction in crimes committed by Americans of African descent.

Peace to you

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I didn’t see those particular stats, but I did find info on prisoners sentenced 2018.

Black: 33 percent
White: 30 percent
Hispanic: 22 percent
Other: 13 percent

Perhaps that represents a significant reduction in crimes committed by Americans of African descent.

Peace to you

No, there have been some changes, but that's not the case here. My numbers are also from 2018.

I calculated the %s myself (all perfectly legal). The raw numbers are from the top of Table 16 in https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p18.pdf, which I also linked and posted earlier.

If you are unable to see or access those, you are working with a serious limitation.

 

[canadyjd]

No, there have been some changes, but that's not the case here. My numbers are also from 2018.

I calculated the %s myself (all perfectly legal). The raw numbers are from the top of Table 16 in https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p18.pdf, which I also linked and posted earlier.

If you are unable to see or access those, you are working with a serious limitation.

I got my info from page 15 of the link you provided. That page gave gross numbers of sentencing in 2018 for state and federal crimes. The gross numbers were given by male and female. Then also gross numbers by race: white, black, Hispanic, other. I calculated the percentages myself, please double check.

On the page 18 that you linked to there were 11 different age categories comparing “white to black” and “white to Hispanics”. I didn’t find “white to other”, which made up 13 percent of gross numbers.

I will admit that I found the data on page 18 confusing. I’m still not sure what the graph is showing, or how it relates to gross numbers.

peace to you

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I got my info from page 15 of the link you provided. That page gave gross numbers of sentencing in 2018 for state and federal crimes. The gross numbers were given by male and female. Then also gross numbers by race: white, black, Hispanic, other. I calculated the percentages myself, please double check.

On the page 18 that you linked to there were 11 different age categories comparing “white to black” and “white to Hispanics”. I didn’t find “white to other”, which made up 13 percent of gross numbers.

I will admit that I found the data on page 18 confusing. I’m still not sure what the graph is showing, or how it relates to gross numbers.

peace to you

OK, for clarification, Table 16 is on page 24. However, it includes only Federal inmates, not State, which are listed in Table 14 (p 22).

These tables do not specify "Other," but is easy enough to determine, and the discrepancy between the two is extreme. For Federal, "Other" amounts to a mere 3.38%, whereas for State it is 15.31%.

"Other" in these tables would include mixed race individuals, a category that may be mostly disregarded at the Federal level.


Table 9 (p 15) includes those under 17, but does not tabulate them. Table 12 (p 20) indicates there are 735 total, so the overall percentages may not be wildly affected by the omission.

However, of special interest are the discrepancies between Whites & Blacks and Whites & Hispanics shown in Figures 2 & 3 (p 17). Note the high ratios for the 18-19 age group.


Pages 18 & 19 are about foreigners, which raises a lot more issues.

 

[canadyjd]

.......However, of special interest are the discrepancies between Whites & Blacks and Whites & Hispanics shown in Figures 2 & 3 (p 17). Note the high ratios for the 18-19 age group.

Pages 18 & 19 are about foreigners, which raises a lot more issues.

Without doubt, there is a huge amount of information in the report. I did notice the age discrepancy. I also noticed the raw numbers show white women (about 48,000) out pacing black women (about 19,000).

And the information came from state and federal sources. It included info on sentencing and releases.

It is a stats geek paradise.

peace to you

 

[OnlyaSinner]

No, there have been some changes, but that's not the case here. My numbers are also from 2018.

I calculated the %s myself (all perfectly legal). The raw numbers are from the top of Table 16 in https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p18.pdf, which I also linked and posted earlier.

If you are unable to see or access those, you are working with a serious limitation.

I see no discrepancies, as your percentages appear to be the total prison population as of 2018 while #31 is limited just to those sentenced in 2018. (And IMO, one year's time is too short to tell if there's a trend.)