music and immorality?

Very interesting topic! The only thing is I am wondering if anyone on this board has ever admitted to being wrong?
I have learned that I have a lot more to learn that i have to teach so I am mostly just reading this with great interest.
For what it is worth..I spent several months in college studying this very topic.
The more I study, the more I know I need to learn!
I think few of us would say that music has no moral impact at all but discerning the "line" is sometimes hard.
I produce a gospel radio program for the local country station and this topic is something that I deal with quite often.

My 2¢ about the meaning of CCM is that there are really two meanings...The actual words mean Christian music that is current, ie, the composer is alive today.
The phrase "CCM" in common usage refers more to modern styles, ie gospel rock etc.

I still have a lot to learn about all of this and to be honest...the Bible doesn't give a "proof text" about how music should be.
One thing that I keep seeing as something that should maintained, a principle for any age, is that it should always be the world who copies the Church, not the other way around.

Please keep the musical history up folks....very interesting!

 

First of all, when you say, "Gospel blues", I think most people would associate that with blues artists.

In the case of Dorsey, He was the pastor of Ebeneezer Baptist Church in Chicago. Music such as we traditionally associate with black gospel was not only performed there, but the church became a showplace for that kind of music.

From allmusicguide.com's bio of Mahalia Jackson:

Born in one of the poorest sections of New Orleans on October 16, 1911, Jackson made her debut in the children's choir of the Plymouth Rock Baptist Church at the age of four, and within a few years was a prominent member of the Mt. Moriah Baptist's junior choir. Raised next door to a sanctified church, she was heavily influenced by their brand of gospel, with its reliance on drums and percussion over piano; another major inspiration was the blues of Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey.

Actually, those are "old Negro spirituals".

I would encourage you to read about the history of groups like the Gospelaires, the Dixie Hummingbirds, the Soul Stirrers, the Fairfield Four, or the various "blind boy" groups.

[ December 02, 2004, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Mike McK ]

 

I've already ordered that book, by the way.

 

Dear PastorJeff,

You wrote on Dec 1st.: " ok, since we are going ahead with this I will point something out. Is Classical a style or time period? Baroqu? Renassance? Modern? These are all classifications pertaining to a time period. Even Modern music is a period beginning in the late 1800s and continuing till today. CCM is a period of Christian music containing many different styles which even include hymns ( which is more a content classification than a style). "

Regarding the "bolded" question above,the answer is both. Classical,for example,can describe an era as well as a style of music.

Here's a Music Guide from Classicfm.com that covers the time periods of music:
http://www.classicfm.com/index.cfm?nodeId=78&preview_mode=-1&sw=800

It should help to clarify things.

In Christ,

Dale

 

Was it the music or a lack of discipleship?

There are a lot of 'popular' 'large' growing churches that I continue to ask exactly what Gospel are they teaching and what standards are they raising?

How is this possible!?!? I agree with Diane!

In my view we should be so caught up personally in Our Worship of Our Lord and Savior that those around us, while important not to offend, are no longer in our active consideration...

While I would shudder at the thought of the sight of the ladies of my church dancing in their slips... They would still be better dressed than a lot of church folks I've seen fully dressed!


Back to swaying in a 'sensual' manner...

I didn't see it so I can't say what it *really* looked like...

But, I know from reading the forum that for some people *any* hip movement to *any* beat might as well be a striptease...

As they say, all too often, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And, unfortunately, so can sensuousness...

 

Was it the music or a lack of discipleship?</font>[/QUOTE]Since I said this, I believe you are addressing me. My answer is "music." I have never seen anyone dance to "lack of discipleship." As one person said, I have never seen anyone dance while I am preaching; I have seen a few walk out though. Of course it is the music people are dancing to.

I don't think sensual swaying is that hard to discern. Some people are way too easily offended by a tapping foot or snapping fingers or some such. But I think sensual movements are pretty easily seen.

I completely agree. I think in many of these churches discipleship is very weak, but I can't speak from first hand experience and I can't speak for all of them ... so I won't.

 

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken

I remember a youth sponsor who talked to myself and my friends and tried to equate out of control sexual appetites with CCM and Rock. There was just as little facts and scripture in that discussion as there is in this thread.

There is no causal link between the two. A person can listen to ungodly rock music and can have strong moral standards, and a person can listen to Beethoven and Fanny Crosby and be a moral reprobate.

Most of the CCM that I find very God honoring sounds like nothing I have ever heard in Pop music, and the genres are growing further apart in many ways. There are those who are attempting cross over music, and trying to copy exactly what is being done by the secular top artists, but that is not necessarily characteristic of the genre

 

Dear Superdave,

You wrote: " I remember a youth sponsor who talked to myself and my friends and tried to equate out of control sexual appetites with CCM and Rock. There was just as little facts and scripture in that discussion as there is in this thread.

There is no causal link between the two. A person can listen to ungodly rock music and can have strong moral standards, and a person can listen to Beethoven and Fanny Crosby and be a moral reprobate."


That's so true! As Galatians 5:22-23 states: " 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control .

It's funny that in all of the threads on music, "self control" is not mentioned!

But,then again,it's much easier to blame the "external" rather than the "internal".

Again,an excellent post!

In Christ,

Dale

 

Where have you been? I've brought it up everytime some knucklehead tried to say that the Christian's worship should be "unrestrained," or other such tripe.

 

Dear Aaron,

You asked:"Where have I been?" Why here of course!

Self control,as I define it,is the ability not to be "helpless" or "out of control" when hearing music,especially music that has a "beat". Also,it means that I control my thoughts to keep things from getting "sensuous & carnal".

In playing music,self control means playing what the musical piece requires,nothing more,nothing less. And,I play the instrument greatly feared by many a fundamentalist, the drums!

Self control also means that I can "tune out" the rolling "boom box" blasting rap,and other music that I don't particularily care for. This goes for record stores,etc.

But,I DO agree with you regarding "wild and unrestrained" worship. Yet,at the same time, worship shouldn't be a "Stoic straightjacket" or "corpse practice" either.

So,somewhere between the wild revel and the "Stoic straightjacket"...

In Christ,

Dale

 

First of all, when you say, "Gospel blues", I think most people would associate that with blues artists.

In the case of Dorsey, He was the pastor of Ebeneezer Baptist Church in Chicago. Music such as we traditionally associate with black gospel was not only performed there, but the church became a showplace for that kind of music.

From allmusicguide.com's bio of Mahalia Jackson:

Born in one of the poorest sections of New Orleans on October 16, 1911, Jackson made her debut in the children's choir of the Plymouth Rock Baptist Church at the age of four, and within a few years was a prominent member of the Mt. Moriah Baptist's junior choir. Raised next door to a sanctified church, she was heavily influenced by their brand of gospel, with its reliance on drums and percussion over piano; another major inspiration was the blues of Bessie Smith and Ma Rainey.

Actually, those are "old Negro spirituals".

I would encourage you to read about the history of groups like the Gospelaires, the Dixie Hummingbirds, the Soul Stirrers, the Fairfield Four, or the various "blind boy" groups. </font>[/QUOTE]...I can't believe I forgot this but if anyone is interested in hearing the relationship between black Gospel, Negro spirituals, R&B and Jazz, I believe some of Alan Lomax's recordings are available on the internet for download and most of his recordings have examples of these things.

 

I'm bored.

Bump.


Now Playing: Dwight Yoakam – "Guitars, Cadillacs, etc"

 

I'm still bored.

Now Playing: Wildwood Valley Boys - "Songs From Wildwood Valley"

 

Have to disagree with you there. The music of Listz and Paganini (in particular) had similar effects on people of their time. Now it is considered virtuosic but people are not swooning in the aisles over it these days.

Brett