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Music in worship

JSM17

New Member
What does the N.T. say about Mechanical instruments in the worship?

Do we have examples of what type of music God wants from us?

Does it matter to God how we worship Him.

When Jesus said that God must be worshiped in spirit and in truth (John 4:23, 24), was how we worship Him important?

What is authorized by God, how much has He loosed to us to decide?
 

donnA

Active Member
Does it matter to God how we worship Him.
Not getting into the music debate, but the answer to this question seems to be YES it does matter to Him. I've been reading through the OT and God had a lot to say about how His people were to approach Him in worship, (and euqally how they were not to approach Him).
 

Darron Steele

New Member
...
But the Church of Christ denomination does...and thus begins a debate on probably their most goofy point of doctrine.
Yep!

I am already laughing!

How many threads full of the most ridiculous assertions and `reasonings' have we seen on this subject?

I thought JSM17 was going to stay away from this subject.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
What does the N.T. say about Mechanical instruments in the worship?

Do we have examples of what type of music God wants from us?

Does it matter to God how we worship Him.

When Jesus said that God must be worshiped in spirit and in truth (John 4:23, 24), was how we worship Him important?

What is authorized by God, how much has He loosed to us to decide?

I was just reading Ezra and noticed two things:
Then Jeshua son of Jozadak and his fellow priests and Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel and his associates began to build the altar of the God of Israel to sacrifice burnt offerings on it, in accordance with what is written in the Law of Moses the man of God. 3 Despite their fear of the peoples around them, they built the altar on its foundation and sacrificed burnt offerings on it to the LORD, both the morning and evening sacrifices. 4 Then in accordance with what is written, they celebrated the Feast of Tabernacles with the required number of burnt offerings prescribed for each day. 5 After that, they presented the regular burnt offerings, the New Moon sacrifices and the sacrifices for all the appointed sacred feasts of the LORD, as well as those brought as freewill offerings to the LORD. 6 On the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings to the LORD, though the foundation of the LORD's temple had not yet been laid.
That the Postexilic Jews wanted to get the sacrifice and worship right and in accordance with God's laws. After 70 years of exil in Babylon for disobediance to the Law; who can blame them? and
10 When the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the LORD, the priests in their vestments and with trumpets, and the Levites (the sons of Asaph) with cymbals, took their places to praise the LORD, as prescribed by David king of Israel. 11 With praise and thanksgiving they sang to the LORD :
"He is good;
his love to Israel endures forever."
And all the people gave a great shout of praise to the LORD, because the foundation of the house of the LORD was laid. 12 But many of the older priests and Levites and family heads, who had seen the former temple, wept aloud when they saw the foundation of this temple being laid, while many others shouted for joy. 13 No one could distinguish the sound of the shouts of joy from the sound of weeping, because the people made so much noise. And the sound was heard far away.
They had a time of praise with trumpets and cymbols and the people probably recited Psalm 136 where the levites said the first stanza and the people responded "His love to Israel endures forever". Also I noted that David may have been responsible for the Jewish order of worship being held at this time. Maybe (this is just supposition) David instituted worship reform in his day. So to answer the question musical instruments are a part of the worship of God and I really don't think it matters what type. What's available?. Also an important aspect of worship is referrencing scripture that signifies God's goodness to his people.
Also Note 1 Cor 14:26-40
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.
That there is an emphasis on orderly worship. So to worshiping him in spirit and truth we have this in Hebrews:
6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
So to please God we must have faith and we must earnestly seek him. To worship him in spirit (that spirit of faith) and Truth. Is to earnestly seek God in faith and uphold that bastion of truth the scriptures. Also to be truthful in our faith. Just doing stuff because its right is different than truely earnestly with our heart seeking to please God. Its the latter that God wants. There's my 2 cents worth.
 

Johnv

New Member
What does the N.T. say about Mechanical instruments in the worship?
The NT doesn't give a rip about mechanical instruments. Whatever instruments you use in church, if use them for the glory of God, you're fine. Doesn't matter if it's a Les Paul guitar, or a tissue paper/comb.
 
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annsni

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Thinkingstuff - It's funny that you post about Ezra because I just read that in my Bible reading over our vacation and saw just how praise was done at that time because someone here on BB had argued with me that the only time instruments like that were used were after a victory in battle but that was not the case here. :) I wrote it down to remember it.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
We had quite of a discussion on this last year by DEFENDER OF THE FAITH. (btw - he has not posted since Jan of 09 - he pretty much was a one issue man)

JSM, I challenge you to answer my questions of my post # 2 on the link indicated above.

And as I said in that post -
"Whether you answer my questions or not, this is my last post on this subject" - unless you specifically ask me a question
 

TCGreek

New Member
JSM17 is a typical, traditional church of Christ member. What else do you expect from him?

Believe me, he's got a lot more of those nonsensical questions.

My prayer is that his eyes be opened to what God is doing in the world through the various denominations;

and,

that he would stop this relentless effort to to convert everyone to his church of Christ traditions.
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
Thinkingstuff - It's funny that you post about Ezra because I just read that in my Bible reading over our vacation and saw just how praise was done at that time because someone here on BB had argued with me that the only time instruments like that were used were after a victory in battle but that was not the case here. :) I wrote it down to remember it.

Thanks! And so they were wrong! It seems music was very essential for all sorts of things in the OT. Probably also in the NT just that it was taken for granted :thumbsup:
 

RAdam

New Member
It amuses me when people go to the old testament to find support for musical instruments in church service. Since when do we get our procedure for new testament worship service from the old testament? Let's see, we don't do things the way they did them - we don't have priests, we don't sacrifice animals and crops, we don't have feast days and the like, etc. We are correct on all these points. Yet, we will happily go there to defend musical instruments. Doesn't that seem a bit inconsistent to you? Jesus said you don't put new wine in old bottles or a new patch on an old garment. Paul clearly states you don't mix the new with the old, the gospel with the law. Might I suggest that whatever we do in the NT service we use the NT to glean, support, and defend it and not the OT.
 

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
It amuses me when people go to the old testament to find support for musical instruments in church service. Since when do we get our procedure for new testament worship service from the old testament? Let's see, we don't do things the way they did them - we don't have priests, we don't sacrifice animals and crops, we don't have feast days and the like, etc. We are correct on all these points. Yet, we will happily go there to defend musical instruments. Doesn't that seem a bit inconsistent to you? Jesus said you don't put new wine in old bottles or a new patch on an old garment. Paul clearly states you don't mix the new with the old, the gospel with the law. Might I suggest that whatever we do in the NT service we use the NT to glean, support, and defend it and not the OT.

so since the NT doesn't say anything about musical instruments, we don't use them?
 

Johnv

New Member
Whoa, back up, beep... beep... beep.

All scripture is profitable. The Greek word for all is translated "all". That includes the OT.
 

RAdam

New Member
My personal stance is no, but the purpose of my post wasn't to take a stance but rather to illustrate this point. Whether you use them or not do not use the OT as support.
 

RAdam

New Member
I didn't say the OT wasn't profitable, I said we shouldn't use it to determine NT worship procedure, as in how we worship God in the church. For instance, had you read my post you would have seen me use the examples of not having priests, not sacrificing, not observing feasts and the like, etc. Those things were outlines in the OT for OT service. The NT outlines how to worship in the NT service.

It is important that we study OT service since it is in the bible and most of it pictures Christ, but not to figure out how to worship in the church.
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
I have yet to see where musical instruments were used in actual Temple worship...nor do I see musical instruments used even in worship services in the NT. I also, don't see musical instruments being used in the development of the Liturgical Early Church services.

I do read of musical instruments being used to praise God, like when the foundation of the Temple was laid, after a victory or maybe as a celebration of a feast, marriage...ect, but not during an actual Temple worship service.

I'm talking about INSIDE the Temple...not outside the Temple...am I overlooking this in the Old and New Testaments and how about the liturgical life of the early church. Anybody have any references?

In XC
-
 
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