Music in worship

[rbell]

This argument has been shown, just another red herring. I already answered this. Deal with singing, thats what we are talking about. Show me earthly corporate worship in the N.T. under the New Covenant were they used mechanical instruments and then I will leave this forum and never come back.

Translation:

Dang. You got me. But I'm not gonna admit it.

Cut yer losses, JSM...you're getting decimated in this argument. Scripture doesn't back you up.

 

[DHK]

God's approved music in N.T. times = singing (Eph 5:19, Col 3:16-17).

Therefore, if I only sing, I KNOW that I am pleasing God. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Rom 10:17).

I can sing by faith because I can read that God requires it.

Maybe he requires singing only in the Greek and Hebrew. Have you ever thought about that? Maybe he requires it standing only and not sitting, as was the custom of the Jews. Have you thought about that? What kind of songs does God require? Do all your songs "teach and admonish one another"--the purpose that Paul sets forth in Col.3:16? Or do you sing some of those simple praise songs? How many of your songs admonish one another? Be honest. What percentage of the songs that you sing admonish one another.

noutheteo--from the same as 3559; to put in mind, i.e. (by implication) to caution or reprove gently:--admonish, warn. (from Strong's)

I cannot play an instrument by faith because God said nothing on that subject.

Perhaps that might be because you have either done no study or are KJVO. Which is it? The word "psalms" by implication means either with or without instruments. Do a study on the word. God has spoken on the subject. You simply don't want to admit it.

It's funny how some will point to the O.T. or Heaven to try and justify what is authorized in the N.T. In heaven there is no marriage, so I guess we can do away with it now...

It is not funny how some pretend to put themselves in the place of God and tell others the mind of God; that is what God has authorized and what He hasn't. Who gave you this supernatural knowledge?

There is not passage that condemns eating grape jelly and kool aid with the Lord's supper, so that must be fine also. Just eat it in addition to the unleavened bread and fruit of the vine. God doesn't care and it tastes much better, and since He didn't say not to, it MUST be fine...

But God did give explicit instructions about the Lord's Table, therefore your point is wrong, a red herring, and if carried out that way--blasphemously portraying the Lord's body and blood.

You cannot know what God wants or doesn't want by what He DID NOT say.

I can know what the Word of God says. I also can know the principles that the Word of God teaches.

The music commanded is singing. If you use a song book, in the end, you only have one type of music, singing.

In your own words: "God never authorized song books." He never authorized pianos either. Yet one is right and the other wrong. You are being hypocritical.

The command is to assemble. If you use a building, even with air conditioning, you are fulfilling the command to assemble.

The only buildings that we see the early believers using were: first the Temple, and then the synagogues, and finally homes. Any thing other than that would be in your own words "not authorized." You would be hypocritical therefore to meet in a church building or to use air conditioning. You are not practicing NT Christianity. Nor are you facing NT persecution. Why not be a missionary to Turkey, Iraq, Egypt, Pakistan, etc. and face the persecution that a NT believer would face? Naw, the comfort of the U.S. is too hard to give up, isn't it?

What many people obviously don't understand is the difference between carrying out a command and ADDING to a command.

Apparently you don't understand that same concept.

 

[Johnv]

We are now at 21 pages, and STILL, no scripture has been presented that fodbids use of instruments in worship.

 

[JSM17]

Johny Wrote:

We are now at 21 pages, and STILL, no scripture has been presented that fodbids use of instruments in worship.

We are now 21 pages, and STILL, no scripture has been presented that authorizes use of mechanical instruments in worship. Why don't you give us one Johny.

Rbell Wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSM17 View Post
This argument has been shown, just another red herring. I already answered this. Deal with singing, that's what we are talking about. Show me earthly corporate worship in the N.T. under the New Covenant were they used mechanical instruments and then I will leave this forum and never come back.

Translation:

Dang. You got me. But I'm not gonna admit it.

Cut yer losses, JSM...you're getting decimated in this argument. Scripture doesn't back you up.

Certainly not by you, have you shown authorization for what you advocate, hardly?

It is really simple actually and it works with all other biblical principles, if the scriptures explicitly state something (commands) there is no doubt, but if we assume something from that command such as adding mechanical instruments then we cannot be sure on its authorization.

DHK Wrote:

The word "psalms" by implication means either with or without instruments. Do a study on the word. God has spoken on the subject. You simply don't want to admit it.

So then does God require all to play an instrument, or just those who choose to?

I can know what the Word of God says. I also can know the principles that the Word of God teaches.

Yes the Bible says to sing!

In your own words: "God never authorized song books." He never authorized pianos either. Yet one is right and the other wrong. You are being hypocritical.

Song books are not offered up as worship, we have been through this already, the piano is not offered as worship either, it is what comes from it, the music is played as part of the worship to God as "Praise". Your argument is weak and you know it.

 

[Johnv]

We are now 21 pages, and STILL, no scripture has been presented that authorizes use of mechanical instruments in worship. Why don't you give us one Johny.

So, is it your position that we're NOT allowed to do something unless scripture allows it? Does you church have a sound system? Does your church require baptism as a prerequisite for membership? Does your church uses wafers and grape juice for communion? Does your church have modern lighting? None of those things are expressly permitted in scripture.

 

[rbell]

Song books are not offered up as worship, we have been through this already, the piano is not offered as worship either, it is what comes from it, the music is played as part of the worship to God as "Praise". Your argument is weak and you know it.

I always love how the CoC denomination can create such a plethora of inconsistent arguments. It's really quite entertaining.

 

[Darron Steele]

I always love how the CoC denomination can create such a plethora of inconsistent arguments. It's really quite entertaining.

Yeah; it is interesting.

`This grounds we hold for banning musical instruments applies to this other thing we want. Well, we do not care: the other thing is still fine.'

`Yes, we know that is our grounds for banning musical instruments. Someone has pointed that this other thing we want deserves even more to be banned under that criteria. No matter: we will not ban the desired practice, and will maintain our ban on musical instruments.'​

As hard as this might be to believe, there are an increasing number of Churches of Christ that have abandoned this foolishness.

More and more Church of Christ congregations have accepted that there are no valid grounds for a universal ban against musical instruments.

Some in response have implemented their use in assembly. Others are still not using them just because they are not needed.

 

[JSM17]

Should We Use Musical
Instruments In Our Worship To
God?
Old Testament authorized Instruments in
worship
New Testament silent about instruments in
worship
Why the difference?

 

[DHK]

Should We Use Musical
Instruments In Our Worship To
God?
Old Testament authorized Instruments in
worship
New Testament silent about instruments in
worship
Why the difference?

You tell me why you think there is a difference. There isn't.
The book of Revelation is still in the NT. Don't forget that. There are plenty of instruments there. And His Kingdom shall be forever and ever.

I have demonstrated for you plenty of times that the word "Psalm" has the meaning of "with instruments," and therefore instruments cannot be ruled out of NT worship no matter how hard you pound your pulpit and say they are. Therefore you are just wrong about this subject.

 

[Johnv]

Old Testament authorized Instruments in worship
New Testament silent about instruments in worship
Why the difference?

Seeing as how the NT is half the size of the OT, it's clear that the NT writers did not see the need to reiterate everything in the OT. Otherwise, there would be no need for an OT in the Christian Scriptures. If that's not blatantly obvious to you, I question the manner in which you interpret scripture.

 

[ccrobinson]

We are now 21 pages, and STILL, no scripture has been presented that authorizes use of mechanical instruments in worship. Why don't you give us one Johny.

You are the one that says mechanical instruments should not be used in worship. Therefore, it is incumbent on you to prove your position.

 

[sag38]

I agree ccrobinson. There's nothing to prove. There is no Biblical proabition against using a mechanical musical instrument anywhere to be found in the Bible (Old or New Testament). But, if there is, please show it.

 

[Johnv]

Anyone who claims that scripture says nothing about praising God with mechanical musical instruments must be ignorant of Psalm 150, which says to praise the Lord with trumpet, harp, lyre, tambourine, strings, flute, and cymbals.