music ministry today

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 17, 2016

Hi there..I am a new boy on the block[forum] from Australia....I notice in many churches today it seems the music groups lead worship in singing a few bouncy songs..usually not from a scripture in song type worshipfull way....more a performance......and people are clapping and singing ect.....The musicians then sit and pastor or someone preaches....seems harmless and good........maybe not so...what is disappearing is..waiting on God...a time for the reverential ..which is important...people at this time can involve in body ministry...gifts of spirit....or congregation member to sing and people join in....a word of exhortation or encouragement for someone...spontaneous praise...things like that...Trust you know what I mean.. as I am not a Baptist....but in heaven there will only be Christians...Which I am.. born again ...Blood washed...Holy Ghost filled...sanctified....new covenant believer....but does anyone see the same as myself....I have no doubt sincerity is there.....but many are sincere...yet sincerely wrong....also when arriving to church....people are met by music......no time to sit quietly...pray.......minister to Lord maybe a little repentance needed....am I feeling something that others notice.....or consider I am missing it......church to me is highly important....our worship time....ministering to others and receiving same......but music groups seem dominant where I fellowship...everywhere I go in fact.......noticed it grows........watch Television preachers and their worship times...it all seem so mechanical....and a performance than ministry...sorry if I have upset anyone

annsni · Apr 17, 2016

I find the issue is order. In the churches where it's more "open", there is more chaos, more time for someone to use it for their agenda, and just general disorder. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But we all serve the same God and the same God who might cause one person to spontaneously think of a song can do so with the guy who is leading the group. Our worship pastor is definitely spontaneous - much to the chagrin of the person running the computer - LOL I don't see anything wrong with either method and it's really a matter of preference.

Internet Theologian · Apr 17, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
Hi there..I am a new boy on the block[forum] from Australia....I notice in many churches today it seems the music groups lead worship in singing a few bouncy songs..usually not from a scripture in song type worshipfull way....more a performance......and people are clapping and singing ect.....The musicians then sit and pastor or someone preaches....seems harmless and good........maybe not so...what is disappearing is..waiting on God...a time for the reverential ..which is important...people at this time can involve in body ministry...gifts of spirit....or congregation member to sing and people join in....a word of exhortation or encouragement for someone...spontaneous praise...things like that...Trust you know what I mean.. as I am not a Baptist....but in heaven there will only be Christians...Which I am.. born again ...Blood washed...Holy Ghost filled...sanctified....new covenant believer....but does anyone see the same as myself....I have no doubt sincerity is there.....but many are sincere...yet sincerely wrong....also when arriving to church....people are met by music......no time to sit quietly...pray.......minister to Lord maybe a little repentance needed....am I feeling something that others notice.....or consider I am missing it......church to me is highly important....our worship time....ministering to others and receiving same......but music groups seem dominant where I fellowship...everywhere I go in fact.......noticed it grows........watch Television preachers and their worship times...it all seem so mechanical....and a performance than ministry...sorry if I have upset anyone

There is a missing reverence that is evident imo. One church we were at would have 'the music ministry team' get up there to try to pump the people up and get them excited - this same team would then tell the people that they didn't look excited (like they were) then came the 'Come on, get excited with us!'. It was awkward, the church is now defunct...

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 17, 2016

maybe my church circle is different to yours. People seemingly to me cannot understand reverence nor body ministry...after the music leader tells them how awesome the praise was.....they go into either a lengthy offering message or the sermon.....all the time being told how awesome worship time was. These churches are growing numerically.......mostly the 18 to 25s...not new converts but leaving other churches that are not with it...The ones who value what I do are leaving...sadly ...The people feel out of things not realising what they bought into church was Holy Spirit ministry........without all the church being involved and freedom to minister and be ministered to it will get of course from a revival atmosphere..eventually..church should never be repetitive or programmed...Holy Spirit guided......Let the people be inspired not programmed.....the evidence of Jesus in our lives is being a new creature[creation].... walking in His word.....learning and doing it........the inward man dominating the flesh.....Love the dominant force in our lives...that is obedience to Gods word....1John5;2--3.....and the simple evidence of if we really love Jesus is obedience.....JOHN14;21------24........Be ye doers not hearers only.........deceiving your own self.....amen

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 17, 2016

annsni said:
I find the issue is order. In the churches where it's more "open", there is more chaos, more time for someone to use it for their agenda, and just general disorder. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But we all serve the same God and the same God who might cause one person to spontaneously think of a song can do so with the guy who is leading the group. Our worship pastor is definitely spontaneous - much to the chagrin of the person running the computer - LOL I don't see anything wrong with either method and it's really a matter of preference.

Holy Spirit led churches do not have chaos...A well pastored church will be grounded in its open worship...not hit and miss.....As for all serving same God........a quick look at the seven churches in Revelation will show not all who serve same God do it as He desires........the satan lie is such a statement....Ministry gifts[Ephesians4;11--12] are to Equip the church to perfect the church to minister and edify the body...churches that do not have Holy Spirit appointed leaders will have chaos...and our preferences should not be our own.........but Jesus Christ our glorious head of the church........but I thank you for your reply....and the person who runs the computer need to forget running it and run with the Hol Spirit...........I am a no computer in services person....

Internet Theologian · Apr 18, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
maybe my church circle is different to yours. People seemingly to me cannot understand reverence nor body ministry...after the music leader tells them how awesome the praise was.....they go into either a lengthy offering message or the sermon.....all the time being told how awesome worship time was. These churches are growing numerically.......mostly the 18 to 25s...not new converts but leaving other churches that are not with it...The ones who value what I do are leaving...sadly ...The people feel out of things not realising what they bought into church was Holy Spirit ministry........without all the church being involved and freedom to minister and be ministered to it will get of course from a revival atmosphere..eventually..church should never be repetitive or programmed...Holy Spirit guided......Let the people be inspired not programmed.....the evidence of Jesus in our lives is being a new creature[creation].... walking in His word.....learning and doing it........the inward man dominating the flesh.....Love the dominant force in our lives...that is obedience to Gods word....1John5;2--3.....and the simple evidence of if we really love Jesus is obedience.....JOHN14;21------24........Be ye doers not hearers only.........deceiving your own self.....amen

I've always found it of interest that the Holy Spirit is to talk of Christ, point to Christ, not Himself. That being said the many who claim to be an example of Holy Spirit leadership tend to hardly ever even mention Christ but almost incessantly talk of the Holy Spirit only. He doesn't point to Himself but to Christ.

My point is we won't be talking of how our ministry is an example to all others, and always of the Holy Spirit in lieu of Christ. When Christ get's all the glory which is according to Scripture, the focus will be on Him. John 16:13.

Sapper Woody · Apr 18, 2016

I find that there is a fine line to be walked. Satan, is a master deceiver, and he can imitate a Holy Spirit filled service with emotions.

I do feel that God often used music as the vehicle to talk to man and prepare man for the message about to be delivered. I've seen services have only music and no preaching, and revival break out. But Satan wants to copy that and allow us to be overcome with emotion by music and have no actual Holy Spirit interaction.

While not my preference, I've even seen "7-11" songs be used as a vehicle for the Spirit to move in. But like I said, it's a fine line, and we need to be able to distinguish between man made sensationalism and the moving of the Holy Spirit.

As far as "bouncy" songs go, we are in a war. And in war, you do need to keep morale of the troops up. If a church only sang slow, reverent hymns, if probably not be attending too long. I like it when the church opens with a rousing "Stand up, stand up for Jesus", or " Saved, saved ", or things along those lines.

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annsni · Apr 18, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
and the person who runs the computer need to forget running it and run with the Hol Spirit...........I am a no computer in services person....

See, having the computer is actually helpful when you want to flow with the Spirit.

I can get to a song with lyrics faster than anyone can find a hymn in a hymnal and get the words up within 3 words of the worship leader starting the song.

That's even if the song isn't in my playlist.

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 18, 2016

Internet Theologian said:
I've always found it of interest that the Holy Spirit is to talk of Christ, point to Christ, not Himself. That being said the many who claim to be an example of Holy Spirit leadership tend to hardly ever even mention Christ but almost incessantly talk of the Holy Spirit only. He doesn't point to Himself but to Christ.

My point is we won't be talking of how our ministry is an example to all others, and always of the Holy Spirit in lieu of Christ. When Christ get's all the glory which is according to Scripture, the focus will be on Him. John 16:13.

Each member of the Tri-une God has different functions......Jesus told us to petition Him not in prayer....John16;23-24.......we pray to God the Father in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ.....we proclaim salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ.He is our Lord..Saviour ...Advocate ...Great High priest..King...Word of God..Appostle and High Priest of our Proffession....Friend..and more...The Holy Spirit is the one who leads us,Romans8;14.....empowers believers Acts1;8.....He is the giver of ministry gifts and works them as He wills.......we are to do and speak in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ...Colosians3;17.....giving thanks to God our Father in His name....I am sure you agree....so when I Speak about being led in such things a worship I must keep biblical order.....we are to be inspired Him...led in our actions by Him........I have uplifted no ministry.....and will speak of each member of Godhead as our new testament teaches.........I Serve and love my Saviour....My Lord Jesus Christ my head....the context of my discussions will prove this........time is needed........

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 18, 2016

Sapper Woody said:
I find that there is a fine line to be walked. Satan, is a master deceiver, and he can imitate a Holy Spirit filled service with emotions.

I do feel that God often used music as the vehicle to talk to man and prepare man for the message about to be delivered. I've seen services have only music and no preaching, and revival break out. But Satan wants to copy that and allow us to be overcome with emotion by music and have no actual Holy Spirit interaction.

While not my preference, I've even seen "7-11" songs be used as a vehicle for the Spirit to move in. But like I said, it's a fine line, and we need to be able to distinguish between man made sensationalism and the moving of the Holy Spirit.

As far as "bouncy" songs go, we are in a war. And in war, you do need to keep morale of the troops up. If a church only sang slow, reverent hymns, if probably not be attending too long. I like it when the church opens with a rousing "Stand up, stand up for Jesus", or " Saved, saved ", or things along those lines.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk

Sir we are not in any war with anyone........we have authority to use Our Lord Jesus Christs name.....satan is defeated....Hebrews2;14...15.........We are delivered from his rule..Colosians1;12-14....Hath translated us already into Kingdom of Gods dear Son.......Satan has been spoiled..[lost it all]....Colosians;2;14....15.......the war is over with him........The War we are in now is a war with our thinking.....to bring into captivity every thought to knowledge of God......to the word of God.....to bring every thought to the obedience of Christ......we need to renew our minds......have His word in us.....Luke10;19......the same power is delegated to all believers......Mathew28;20....teach all nations verse27......the problem is to few study Gods word........they read it....but if you dont do it.........you will forget it...James1;22--25............Satan is our adversary...[opponent at law].......1Peter5;8-9]...the law he uses is Gods word.......trying to get us to believe differently and we act on our beliefs.............use your sword and resist him.........if you do he must flee......James5;7....amen

Sapper Woody · Apr 19, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
Sir we are not in any war with anyone........we have authority to use Our Lord Jesus Christs name.....satan is defeated....Hebrews2;14...15.........We are delivered from his rule..Colosians1;12-14....Hath translated us already into Kingdom of Gods dear Son.......Satan has been spoiled..[lost it all]....Colosians;2;14....15.......the war is over with him........The War we are in now is a war with our thinking.....to bring into captivity every thought to knowledge of God......to the word of God.....to bring every thought to the obedience of Christ......we need to renew our minds......have His word in us.....Luke10;19......the same power is delegated to all believers......Mathew28;20....teach all nations verse27......the problem is to few study Gods word........they read it....but if you dont do it.........you will forget it...James1;22--25............Satan is our adversary...[opponent at law].......1Peter5;8-9]...the law he uses is Gods word.......trying to get us to believe differently and we act on our beliefs.............use your sword and resist him.........if you do he must flee......James5;7....amen

Firstly, disregarding the fact that I had to read your post several times, as it gave me a headache; I had to rewrite my post, because of a very severe contradiction in your post.

we are not in any war

The War we are in now

Satan is our adversary

use your sword and resist him

Now, on to my original response:
We are very much in a war with Satan. He's walking about as a roaring lion. He is our adversary. The Bible is pretty clear on this. We wrestle against powers, etc. We are to put on the whole armor of God. It is unbelievable to me that anyone would say that we are not in a war.

You see, God has won the final victory. He conquered death, hell, and the grave. He gave us all power in Heaven and in earth. But, He did not take us out of this world. He left us here for His glory. He left us on the battlefield to continue fighting until He decides it's time to take us out. There is a very real war raging.

On the issue of worship, we are to do all we can to bring glory to God. The church service does not have to be filled with "Seven-fold Amen" and boring. you can be reverent while having a good time. I can sing "Heaven Came Down and Glory Filled My Soul" and be just as reverent and worshipful as singing "Amazing Grace". I can listen to "Our God is an Awesome God" and honestly be reminded of the power and majesty our God, giving Him praise all the while.

Then, we move on to entertainment. There's nothing wrong with Christian entertainment, as long as we keep it in perspective. Too often people idolize the church building and service and lift it up to a position it was never meant to be in. To them, it is ok to go to a baseball game, or watch a movie on TV, or enjoy a child's school play. But if we try to have fun while at church, then there's a firestorm of fury. It's completely hypocritical. If you can't have fun in a place where you are with other believers, all aimed at the same goal, all understanding one another's struggles in the Christian life, then where can you have fun?

Jeremy Seth · Apr 19, 2016

The trend of contemporary worship is justified by the concept, "we will reach more people because it's more what people like to hear", which I can only identify as a breach of Romans 12:2.

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 19, 2016

Sapper Woody said:
Firstly, disregarding the fact that I had to read your post several times, as it gave me a headache; I had to rewrite my post, because of a very severe contradiction in your post.

Now, on to my original response:
We are very much in a war with Satan. He's walking about as a roaring lion. He is our adversary. The Bible is pretty clear on this. We wrestle against powers, etc. We are to put on the whole armor of God. It is unbelievable to me that anyone would say that we are not in a war.

You see, God has won the final victory. He conquered death, hell, and the grave. He gave us all power in Heaven and in earth. But, He did not take us out of this world. He left us here for His glory. He left us on the battlefield to continue fighting until He decides it's time to take us out. There is a very real war raging.

On the issue of worship, we are to do all we can to bring glory to God. The church service does not have to be filled with "Seven-fold Amen" and boring. you can be reverent while having a good time. I can sing "Heaven Came Down and Glory Filled My Soul" and be just as reverent and worshipful as singing "Amazing Grace". I can listen to "Our God is an Awesome God" and honestly be reminded of the power and majesty our God, giving Him praise all the while.

Then, we move on to entertainment. There's nothing wrong with Christian entertainment, as long as we keep it in perspective. Too often people idolize the church building and service and lift it up to a position it was never meant to be in. To them, it is ok to go to a baseball game, or watch a movie on TV, or enjoy a child's school play. But if we try to have fun while at church, then there's a firestorm of fury. It's completely hypocritical. If you can't have fun in a place where you are with other believers, all aimed at the same goal, all understanding one another's struggles in the Christian life, then where can you have fun?

Obviosly you are assuming much of which I have not said regards worship......as for war....its that sort of thinking that has certainly given Satan place....he wants you to believe in the power struggle mentality....but when you have experienced true authority as stated in our new covenant...the fact is we believers are the more than conquerors through Christ Jesus who loves us...Romans 5;17 delares we are to reign in life [not in heaven].....the war is over we live the victory life..well You should but you see the deciever as totally beneath your feet.....Ephesians1;15-23.......we are His body....if the small toe realises all things are beneath his feet....so satan is under you..then act like it....I would tell you as a man thinketh in his heart so is he.Very few believers walk the life Christ died to give us as yes satan is our enemy....but all he can do is decieve people....if satan could ...he would kill every christian today.....SATAN WALKS ABOUT AS A LION.......but he is no lion... he is as a lion....makes lot of noise.. about his power......what power.......he is defeated utterly...give him no place..[Ephesians4;27] because the place people give him..he will take.......all he can do is decieve ...he has decieved many to believe they are in a war..[that is total unbelief]....learn to walk like one who has been given authority.............reason for so many sick...scared..defeated christians..never taught correctly..destroyed throuh a lack of knowledge.....and who said entertainment was wrong...just not in my worship to God.....you should listen more accurately to whats said before answering......and if you want to be in a war with Satan..war away...I will live AS BELIEVERS...not doubters should....reigning in life through one Christ Jesus....but thanks for comments

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 19, 2016

Sapper Woody said:
Firstly, disregarding the fact that I had to read your post several times, as it gave me a headache; I had to rewrite my post, because of a very severe contradiction in your post.

Now, on to my original response:
We are very much in a war with Satan. He's walking about as a roaring lion. He is our adversary. The Bible is pretty clear on this. We wrestle against powers, etc. We are to put on the whole armor of God. It is unbelievable to me that anyone would say that we are not in a war.

You see, God has won the final victory. He conquered death, hell, and the grave. He gave us all power in Heaven and in earth. But, He did not take us out of this world. He left us here for His glory. He left us on the battlefield to continue fighting until He decides it's time to take us out. There is a very real war raging.

On the issue of worship, we are to do all we can to bring glory to God. The church service does not have to be filled with "Seven-fold Amen" and boring. you can be reverent while having a good time. I can sing "Heaven Came Down and Glory Filled My Soul" and be just as reverent and worshipful as singing "Amazing Grace". I can listen to "Our God is an Awesome God" and honestly be reminded of the power and majesty our God, giving Him praise all the while.

Then, we move on to entertainment. There's nothing wrong with Christian entertainment, as long as we keep it in perspective. Too often people idolize the church building and service and lift it up to a position it was never meant to be in. To them, it is ok to go to a baseball game, or watch a movie on TV, or enjoy a child's school play. But if we try to have fun while at church, then there's a firestorm of fury. It's completely hypocritical. If you can't have fun in a place where you are with other believers, all aimed at the same goal, all understanding one another's struggles in the Christian life, then where can you have fun?

Well its very obvios you never read clearly what i said...but first are you a believer or an unbelieving believer.......satan is beneath our feet...Ephesians1;15;23..we are Christs body..if you were the toe you would have him beneath you[satan]...resist and he will flee....cast him out...tread on him...thats what believers do...if you think you are in a war...then you are...as a man thinketh so is he......i believe I am more than a conqureor.....give satan no place.....IM NOT A DOUBTER...A BELIEVER.....Yes satan is a deciever..he tries to decieve people he has not been defeated...spoiled....and so the reason many saints live in fear...sick...worried...stress.....they should be reigning..Romans5;17[..in life not in heaven...God tells the believers to do.....like posses the promised land...but they didnt because of unbelief........he tells us satan is defeated..undre our feet...to cast him out...give him no place....and belivers do not realise satan has them in doubt over the victory Christ Jesus gave to all of us........so war away.......me i will reign in life....as for the entertainment..who said it was wrong...just not in my worship to God time please......and you have answered a matter...you should go back and read what i have said.....christians are destroyed through lack of knowledge...you should learn that Jesus said we are more than conquerors...not just conquerors....and live like you believe it...but thanks for your comments...

Internet Theologian · Apr 19, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
Each member of the Tri-une God has different functions......Jesus told us to petition Him not in prayer....John16;23-24.......we pray to God the Father in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ.....we proclaim salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ.He is our Lord..Saviour ...Advocate ...Great High priest..King...Word of God..Appostle and High Priest of our Proffession....Friend..and more...The Holy Spirit is the one who leads us,Romans8;14.....empowers believers Acts1;8.....He is the giver of ministry gifts and works them as He wills.......we are to do and speak in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ...Colosians3;17.....giving thanks to God our Father in His name....I am sure you agree....so when I Speak about being led in such things a worship I must keep biblical order.....we are to be inspired Him...led in our actions by Him........I have uplifted no ministry.....and will speak of each member of Godhead as our new testament teaches.........I Serve and love my Saviour....My Lord Jesus Christ my head....the context of my discussions will prove this........time is needed........

Yep. You've completely dismissed the truth of what was shown you as was fully anticipated.

The Holy Spirit glorifies Christ. Not your ministry and how you do things. And not Himself as you do in your ministry. He glorifies Christ, the Person you completely failed to even mention all the while glorying in the way you minister as compared to others.

Scripture declares it, that is, that the Holy Spirit will glorify Christ, and you pit other Scriptures against this truth proving nothing but that you are readily willing to dismiss said truth. Nevertheless, carry on. And...could...you lose......the periods....between...your words......it would.....make it easier.....to read......what you........say.

annsni · Apr 19, 2016

...means nothing. Use a period and use a capital letter and you have a sentence!

Sapper Woody · Apr 19, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
Well its very obvios you never read clearly what i said

I can't read clearly what isn't written clearly.

I'll get my cryptography kit later and try to deduce what you are saying later, and respond. But in the meantime, I do not appreciate the insinuation that I am living in unbelief, and am deceived by Satan.

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TCassidy · Apr 20, 2016

Rginald Woodbridge said:
Well its very obvios you never read clearly what i said...but first are you a believer or an unbelieving believer.......satan is beneath our feet...Ephesians1;15;23..

Please. If you expect to be taken seriously on this forum learn to write in complete sentences without running them on and on with the improper use of ellipses. And learn to spell. Or at least use a spell checker. The use of poor grammar and poor spelling takes away an credibility your posts may have.

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 20, 2016

TCassidy said:
Please. If you expect to be taken seriously on this forum learn to write in complete sentences without running them on and on with the improper use of ellipses. And learn to spell. Or at least use a spell checker. The use of poor grammar and poor spelling takes away an credibility your posts may have.

Hi there...well i am fairly computer illiterate to start with and its the way we write here....and education is not the guideline of things.....surely a man of your ability can read what i am saying...who cares about being exact in grammar..and i live remote with no one to teach me useing a keyboard that works the way it wants.....so would love some grace from better computer people than me...but thanx at least your reply was meant well i know that..thank you sir

Rginald Woodbridge · Apr 20, 2016

Sapper Woody said:
I can't read clearly what isn't written clearly.

I'll get my cryptography kit later and try to deduce what you are saying later, and respond. But in the meantime, I do not appreciate the insinuation that I am living in unbelief, and am deceived by Satan.

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you sure are

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