Musical Instruments for Fundamental Church

Well said, Artimaeus. Psalm 150 is one of those passages that we (who have been baptist all our lives) can sometimes forget.

So, just to get this straight - the bible encourages dancing?

 

Sure will USN! I don't think I'm planning to come that way though.. lol

 

I wish we had the problem of so many talented musicians that we had to answer this question.

We basically have one lady who can play the piano a little... and none of us can sing.

Someone mentioned Andy Griffith... we sound like a bunch of Barney's singing.

 

I remember that episode!

 

Weren't you in Hawaii for awhile? Anyway, I saw a young lady do an interpretive hula dance to "Amazing Grace" at a Baptist church in Waikiki and was very impressed. I was very leary when I first heard they were going to do this but was very pleased with the tastefulness of it.

 

Back when I was just a little Fundamentalist, I was rehearsing "Like a Lamb" as a guitar-flute duet. The pastor got wind of my intention to play a guitar (first time in the church's history) and queered it. I told him that the song would comply with the strictest standards, but his reply was "I just don't want it to get started." Keeping the guitar out was his way of nipping the CCM problem in the bud, even before the term CCM was coined.

Probably not a bad strategy, in my opinion.

I don't follow that strategy myself, even though my musical standards are probably as narrow as his were. I've introduced the banjo and the mountain dulcimer to our church and the auto harp and hammered dulcimer are soon to follow.

Nevertheless, I think that the best worship is done when singing with no instrumental accompaniment at all, like the Churches of Christ do. But I'm probably outnumbered.

 

Posted by Joman: Soulman would you learn to play drums?

Some of our people that sing special music use sound tracks with drums. Our pastor doesn't like drums though. Something about the drum beat matching the rythim of the heart or some other evil thing.

If I had a set, I would learn to play them.

Musical standards are a wonderful thing. We don't want heavy metal from the pulpit. But! we have to remember that the time honored hymns we hold so dear were considered radical and very contemporary in their day and shunned by most churches. Fanny Crosby was considered quite a rebel.

 

I heard that. It's not that it matches the beat of the heart, but that it doesn't match the heart beat. I'm not sure why this was a problem (or is, if it's still preached).

I remember this from an evangelist who came to speak at our church to the teens (I was a teen at the time). His proof that rocky music was wrong:

1. The beat was meant to beat against the rhythm of the heart

2. Putting two plants in different rooms; one with rock music and the other with classical music, the rocky plant died. (I don't listen to rock music, but somehow can't manage to even keep my fake plants from withering and drying up...seriously...my cacti plants always die)

3. Rock music endorses sex, crime, drugs, rebellion, etc (this one I go along with)

4. When played backwards, the music can be heard to say satanic things that the conscious ear cannot hear but the subconscious picks up on and obeys (this seems to me to imply that we wouldn't have a will) Besides, when they tried to play some of it back, I never caught the words. AND why did they play it back if it was wrong to begin with? [shrug]

5. Rock music causes us to want to move our body but good Christian music will let us sit still and listen to the message (I was always scared to death to tap my foot in church after hearing this preached)

6. Drums have always been used by satanic cults to summon the evil spirits (or was it that the only "religion" certain cultures had was satanic because the Word of God wasn't preached yet and they were too primitave to make string instruments so they banged on drums: animal skin stretched over a hollowed out log?)

There were others, but I can't recall all of them. I'm not trying to say rock music is ok. I'm just questioning the points.

As a teen, I soaked in everything like a sponge and did my best to obey what was taught without trying to learn on my own (I thought I would be rebellious by doing this).

As an adult, I don't agree with all of the above, however, I don't endorse rock music, won't allow it in my home and my kids do not listen to it. But, I don't know if the plant thing would be altogether true. Not sure about the heartbeat point. Frankly, I've heard my kids make noises when they were young that was painful enough to make me want to drive an electric drillbit through my ears, but that isn't considered rock music or satanic noise. In fact, had I tried the plant experiment and added a third plant with my kids in a seperate room, I'm sure THAT plant would have jumped off the shelf.

I'm not saying I agree with all the above points, because I didn't study them on my own. But because they were driven in me at a young age (as many traditions are), I had a problem with guitars and drums when they were first introduced. It's not because I was trying to thrust my opinions on others, but because I was taught one thing and then that one thing that was supposed to be written in stone (so I thought) was changed.

I like Steve Green music (there...I said it...please don't throw stones), yet oddly, I wouldn't want it performed in church. Why? It doesn't sound right, does it? If it's ok at home, why not in church? I don't know why. But, I assume if it was played enough in church, I would get used to it and enjoy it.

 

I didn't realize this had become such an old topic. I'm sorry.

 

"I feel like as long as the words are louder than the music and they glorify the Lord, they can be used for God's glory."

Heard someone say while trying to justify "Christian" hard rock that the kids come for the beat, but after awhile they start digging for the words and try to figure out what is being sung. If they can find out then they might hear about God.

Does that qualify?

 

Quote from excentric:

I saw this happen at my previous church. The youth pastor brought in hard rock music videos and I pulled my kids out of the teen dept.

Yes, it did bring in a few kids, but instead of raising up the ones we were trying to reach, the few teens who did stay (and didn't stay very long) brought down the weaker teens who were already showing signs of straying from the Lord.

When we joined the present church, my son said, "Mom, it's like night and day! NOBODY in our new church swears! They don't talk about drugs or beer and they EVEN LIKE to talk about the Lord!"

I had no idea it was that bad in the teen dept or I would have pulled both kids out a long time ago. I thought the video was a one-time thing, but my son told me it began taking the place of preaching.

This is just one church, though. But I can see how the effect would be general where if you add "bad" to "good" (based on who's standards? I know) generally the bad will pull down the good. Add a rotten apple in a bag of good apples and the rest of the apples will turn rotten.

The reason for this, of course, is that we are sinners by nature. Jesus didn't die on the cross just for us to already have the way to Heaven and leave it to us to pray the prayer of rejection before we go to hell. We are already going to Hell unless we accept Him as our Savior...repent from evil. We have to make it an effort to be good. Bad comes easy (we just don't want to admit it).

But, this is just one reply. I'm not a scholar.

 

This new found Church growth movement is not new at all. The “Lets be a little like the world and we can bring in the lost”….is not a new thought. It didn’t work in the past….and it will not work this time. Oh it will work for a few years and then the Church will be closed, or so far left of center they should close.

Every time the Church takes it’s eyes off God and places its eyes on this world that is when the Church falls. The story of Peter walking on the water is in the Bible for this very reason. When Peter looked away from Christ he fell. Paul had many messages in living in the world…but being a light in the world. A light shines and stands out.

When you have time read what many Baptist wrote about what caused the “down slide” of the Puritans. In short, it was when they started looking at man, and not God. The YMCA was changed to pull in the unsaved. The plan was after they got the unsaved in the building, they would preach to them. Did it work? For a few years it worked and then there were more from the world at the Y then believers. The same will happen to the Church in this age. When is the last time you went to a Bible study at the Y? Worship is about GOD!! We should try to please GOD in worship not try to please the world to bring them in. It’s ALL about God.

It’s now to the point you don’t need your Bible in some churches, nor your songbook. Everything is on the big screen making it nice and easy for us. As said before, some do not play live music, but listen to recordings. This makes things easy for the Music man of the Church. If you have a golf game to play on Sunday…hey..Go for it. You can always download the message from the internet and listen to it later. Forget taping the super Bowl to see it after church, tape the pastor and watch the super bowl.

All of this easy worship is for us not God. But is it really worship if all we think about is how to make it easy for us or others? We should not be thinking of how to make it easy on us or more like the world, but rather how can I do this the best for my God and how can I do it more Godly. Can we not give Him our ALL? Can we not take sometime and go to Church? Can we not carry our Bibles? Can we not take the time and play live music to our GOD? Is He not worth it? Can we not keep the worlds sound in music out of Church?

Worship is ALL about God…get over yourself and worship Him.


In Christ….James

 

Amen Brother James....very true and very well said!!

Greg Sr.

By the way...they use "canned" music with the choir and many of our music specials in our church and I must admit it just doesn't sound near as good as the live stuff.I'll probably never get used to it....but our pastor's preaching is dead on and powerful. GP

 

Nicely put, jarthur001.
Oh, by the way, when you say, 'the church', which church are you referring to ? That term is, I think, (and mean no disrespect), as faceless as when a customer service representative promises 'WE will do our best to ...". I mean, like, who's 'we' ?

Sure, he/she probably means the company he/she represent, but, 'we' can hardly be made to take on responsibility.

So, which 'church' is going to slide downhill ?

I mean, the term 'the church' seems too broad and all-inclusive, like, universal, instead of local.

To illustrate further, I am Primitive Baptist, and feel uncomfortable referring to 'the' Primitive Baptist church. No such thing. There are Primitive Baptist church-es, yes, who may go astray in practice or doctrine, but there is no one Primitive Baptist church.

 

pinoybaptist,

I said the word church a few times, but I’m sure you are addressing this statement…

{{The same will happen to the Church in this age.}}

I was not very clear. Maybe it would be better said….

Any church that looks at the world and changes to be as the world will become just like the world. In this will be the down-slide.

This would include Baptist.

The simple deed of placing a good label on a Church building does not make that church a good Church. What is more important then a Church body calling itself Baptist is that each believer of that church holds to Baptist doctrine. This sounds silly to say, but many churches that have the name Baptist no longer hold to this doctrine but as Lot did in the OT, looking at the world and he wanted to be close to the world. So what did Lot do? He moved a little closer.

I feel I must address the subject of this forum “musical instruments in the church”, to keep with the rules of the forum of staying on the subject.

I agree with Pastor Larry when he stated…

“It has to do with the way they are played, not with the drums themselves. And that is the issue with all musical instruments.”

A drum is nothing until the drummer plays it. For the most part, what comes from the drum comes from the heart of the drummer.

I am an artist. I have been for 35+ years. I can see a person’s heart or what is on his mind by the art he or she draws. Listen, I did not say I could tell if he is saved. God only knows that. But I can tell where his mind is when the art was being formed. I have to hire artist from time to time I can’t always tell with just seeing one work. But if I see all or most of his work you will see moods and over all, his heart.

If he is mad as he draws it will show in his drawing. One “mad looking” drawing is not bad. We all have anger to deal with. But if all I see is he being mad in his work, there is bad bitterness in his life that he needs to deal with.

If he views life as unfair, you will see that in his drawing. If he lives in the world of rock music, it sticks out, it’s very easy to see. I see this rock art more and more today. If his heart is on things of this world it shows. If he likes fast cars, you will see fast cars in some of his work.

You do not have to be an artist to see this. Go to some ones house and look what hangs on the wall. If they like horse racing you’ll see horse racing. If it’s football that gets them going, you’ll see football in the house.

Art is an expression of your heart. Music is like that also. I have seen people sing in Church that was not singing to God, but rather singing as they heard the song sang by some pop star. What did I get from the song? The message to me was that they loved that pop star. Did they also love God? I have no idea. But it did not come across as if they did. Or at least the pop star was placed above God. So what does this have to do with drums in church? Let me ask you…why have drums?

Are drums-sets of the devil? Is an electric guitar just sin in waiting? NO!! Are they worldly as someone asked? Well…they could be…but not in and of themselves.

What the user does with these musical instruments is the issue. If you are just following the world it will show in your songs and music. If you just want the worlds beat, the world may like it, but does God? The big screen I wrote about, it’s not bad in and of itself. But if it leads to dead believers going to a hip church, that will not even open the Word Of God, what is this telling God about our love for Him?

There may be a place for drums in your church, but do not place them there for the wrong reasons. And whatever you do, make sure your goal is not to be like the world, but rather more like Christ.
Just remember…worship is about God

In Christ…James

Sorry..I know I write too much. ?

[ June 24, 2005, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Jarthur001 ]

 

A couple years ago, my husband and I were in another town on Sunday morning and visited an
IFB Church (we're IFBers)that had a piano and a drum set where most churches have an organ. Naturally, we thought "Oh no". But it wasn't bad. Not overbearing at all.

Comes down to not what is played but how it is played.

I play clarinet and (sometimes) alto sax in our church's tiny orchestra. Varies from 3 to 5 players.

 

What I am readin here in this thread, and what I
know from the churches I have attended....it is strictly the PASTOR'S preference. My current Pastor hates any instruments but country style. He likes guitars...but
He hates drums, so you should've seen his face when we went to Africa and the missionary allowed hie members to use drums. I loved it!! My son is an excellent drummer, he was section leader in his high school marching band and also jazz band drummer. I wasn't attending church, I was out of God's will while he was growing up, so I am trying to get him to go to church and get saved. The minute he found out how Pastor feels about drums, he decided he didn't need to venture into our church. Drums kept him on a steady path in school and kept him from falling into the "bad" crowd. He won't give you the time of day if you cast negative feelings on his instrument.

 

I don't see various instruments as "being new so we can bring in the lost." I see it as, "Every generation makes a joyful noise in their own way."

 

Ok, I am a teen, I go to a small IFB church, we have Both as some one called it. But we evaluate every situation, with this. My pastor told my friend Dillion (who plays drums) as long as it is tasteful music to gloryify God he has no problems with it. Dillion played the star spangled banner. I play guitar(or try to) in church. And most all insturments besides have been there. Our missionary from Austraila brought in a didrousare-do(have no idea how to spell that, but you get the picture). It was really neat. We just try not to put them together so they become an organized band/praise band. That would take away from the cause of Christ.

 

This is way off topic, and has nothing to do with the original question about what insturments are appropriate. Whatever you want to play is fine. Its what you play that has moral value, not the instrument.