Musical Instruments in Christ's church

[dh1948]

I have seen C of C "song leaders" (God forbid that they be called "Ministers of Music.") use a small round pitch finder, aka, a musical instrument!

 

[annsni]

I have seen C of C "song leaders" (God forbid that they be called "Ministers of Music.") use a small round pitch finder, aka, a musical instrument!

EEEKKKK!!! Heathen!!

 

[Salty]

I have seen C of C "song leaders" (God forbid that they be called "Ministers of Music.") use a small round pitch finder, aka, a musical instrument!

And to think, DTF had just convinced me to become NI-COC!:wavey: Now this, using a pitch finder. I have lost the faith:tonofbricks: I now continue my search for the "True church":smilewinkgrin: Hmm do the JW's use instruments?raying:

 

[rbell]

Hmm do the JW's use instruments?raying:

Sure, as long as you don't play Christmas carols on them.

 

[BTM]

Are you falsely accusing me saying that my experience is the source of what I believe. Quote me first before laying that allegation on me. I never said that.

This is what you said:

It is totally false. I know by my own experience how false it is.

That seems to me to say that your experience is the basis for how you're determining what is right or wrong regarding the use of musical instruments in worship. If that is not the case, then don't sweat it.

I said, when I hear my children play hymns, such as "It is Well With My Soul," it stirs me; my heart (emotions) are stirred enough to worship God even more fervently than before.

I don't doubt that your children play very well. That fact does not make their playing instruments in worship acceptable to God. Instrumental music is simply not authorized under the NT for use in the worship of God. If it were, would the early church not have used it? You've said yourself that instrumental music was not used for several centuries after the apostolic age. (That's not a quote, but I believe it is in line with some of your past statements.)

But you wouldn't know that. You don't believe in instruments. I already know my theology. I know what the Bible says. Worship involves emotion.

I don't believe that instrumental music is needed to stir my heart or whip up my emotions for worship. The instrument to accompany our singing is the heart (Eph 5:19 "...making melody with your heart..."). Singing is to be done with the spirit and with understanding (1 Cor 14:15), just as we are to pray. You would not advocate instrumental music accompanying prayer, would you?

Yes it affects my emotions, just like watching episode after episode of CSI or similar programming will eventually affect your emotions, but in a different way.

Nice dig. :laugh:

 

[Salty]

This is what you said:

(1) I don't believe that instrumental music is needed to stir my heart or whip up my emotions for worship.

(2) You would not advocate instrumental music accompanying prayer, would you?

Nice dig. :laugh:

1. The key phrase you said is "NEEDED". You are absolutely right. Instruments are NOT needed. But they are not prohibited. Wait, are they? What scripture actually prohibits them?

2. Many pastors actually do have the piano playing while they are praying. Personally, I do not like it, but I will not condemn someone else who does.

Salty

 

[BTM]

1. The key phrase you said is "NEEDED". You are absolutely right. Instruments are NOT needed. But they are not prohibited. Wait, are they? What scripture actually prohibits them?

1 Pet 1:3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The "all things" that have been given us does not include instructions to use mechanical instruments in worship.

We cannot use "it doesn't say not to" as a guide to life or worship. What if your children used that excuse when they did stuff?

Parent - "Why did you shave the dog?!?!"

Child - "You didn't say not to!"

You can see how quickly things could get out of hand. With such an attitude toward the worship of God, it won't be long before there'll be dancing in the worship service. Actually, I've seen that already in a large local Baptist church.

2. Many pastors actually do have the piano playing while they are praying. Personally, I do not like it, but I will not condemn someone else who does.

What purpose might the soft playing of the piano during prayer serve? I've seen it (back in my Baptist days) used during the invitation, the motive being to keep the "emotional vibe" going to motivate someone to respond. "What's wrong with that" one might ask?

The apostles never needed soft background music to get people to respond to the gospel. The apostles never commanded anyone to use instrumental music at all for any reason in NT worship. There is no authority for it in the NT. If there is, it would have been presented by now.

 

[BTM]

I have seen C of C "song leaders" (God forbid that they be called "Ministers of Music.") use a small round pitch finder, aka, a musical instrument!

The difference between a pitch pipe and a piano is that the pitch pipe knows enough to be quiet during the singing.:thumbsup:

 

[rbell]

The difference between a pitch pipe and a piano is that the pitch pipe knows enough to be quiet during the singing.:thumbsup:

Now that is rich. So the pitch pipe's OK, but an organ is not? Hilarious.

1 Pet 1:3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The "all things" that have been given us does not include instructions to use mechanical instruments in worship.

Well now, two things:

If you're gonna stretch Scripture that far, then a pitch pipe is "sinful" too.

Secondly...hope your Bible's made of rubber. If I stretched my Bible that far, it would rip in two. You verse pluck with absolutely no sense of context to make your point.


I have no problem with your saying, "I don't like it." But for you to say, "That is sinful" with regards to instrumental music is unbiblical and wrong-headed.

 

[Amy.G]

Instrumental music is simply not authorized under the NT for use in the worship of God.

Just curious. You say the NT does not authorize musical instruments and you also say that using them in worship is wrong. Do you know why God would prohibit them? What is His purpose for this?

 

[Darron Steele]

Just curious. You say the NT does not authorize musical instruments and you also say that using them in worship is wrong. Do you know why God would prohibit them? What is His purpose for this?

Further, we have shown time and time again from Scripture that God approves of musical instruments in worship.

Scripture shows this time and again in both Testaments.

The burden of proof remains on those who would assert that this practice God approves is actually something we should not be doing.

A couple of posters insist that we have to justify their use. We do not. Going with JUST THE SCRIPTURES, we cannot say that God disapproves of instruments in worship.

There is not one solitary statement of Scripture that negates God's approval of musical instruments in worship. These people have absolutely no Scriptural justification for adding a ban against what God has repeatedly shown approval of in His written Word.

 

[Salty]

1 Pet 1:3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The "all things" that have been given us does not include instructions to use mechanical instruments in worship.

We cannot use "it doesn't say not to" as a guide to life or worship.

BTM & DOF
That verse in I Peter has convicted me. This morning after church I threw away all of our songbooks as "ALL THINGS" do no allow their use.
DOF you said in post # 67

God condemns those who go outside 
his will, so when you begin to worship him
with instrumental music - he is not pleased
for the simple reason that he never said that
is what he wants and we are adding to what he has said

.

And as you previously stated - the Apostles never commanded us to use instruments, and the same goes with the songbooks. I threw them away so no other church will fall into the same sin

 

[Alive in Christ]

BTM,

"You can see how quickly things could get out of hand. With such an attitude toward the worship of God, it won't be long before there'll be dancing in the worship service. Actually, I've seen that already in a large local Baptist church."

You mean like when David danced unto the Lord with all his might? Leaping and whirling? Like that?


:godisgood:

 

[Darron Steele]

1 Pet 1:3 - According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

The "all things" that have been given us does not include instructions to use mechanical instruments in worship.

We cannot use "it doesn't say not to" as a guide to life or worship.

BTM & DOF
That verse in I Peter has convicted me. This morning after church I threw away all of our songbooks as "ALL THINGS" do no allow their use.
DOF you said in post # 67

God condemns those who go outside 
his will, so when you begin to worship him
with instrumental music - he is not pleased
for the simple reason that he never said that
is what he wants and we are adding to what he has said

.

And as you previously stated - the Apostles never commanded us to use instruments, and the same goes with the songbooks. I threw them away so no other church will fall into the same sin

Did you also turn off the electricity and all other utilities?

Put the building up for sale?

Get rid of any modern office equipment?

After all, if the New Testament-era church did not have these things, then God did not provide them, and evidently the church did not need them.

I bet you have more sense than to apply that passage to mean any such nonsense. I am hoping BTM does too.

Further, I am still waiting for substantiation from BTM and `DotF' as to why we have to justify doing what God has time and again indicated His approval of. They still act as if we have to justify doing what God has time and again indicated approval of in His written Word.

If God has repeatedly indicated approval of musical instruments in worship, and done so throughout His written Word, the burden of proof is against mortals who would add a ban against such.

 

[steaver]

I don't believe that instrumental music is needed to stir my heart or whip up my emotions for worship. The instrument to accompany our singing is the heart (Eph 5:19 "...making melody with your heart..."). Singing is to be done with the spirit and with understanding (1 Cor 14:15), just as we are to pray. You would not advocate instrumental music accompanying prayer, would you?

And you have every right to believe this, God loves you just the same.

Music is one of God's wonderful gifts to His children. It stirs the spirit within and is approved worldwide by the tesitmonies given by the Holy Spirit indwellment. You can choose to suppress the Holy Spirit in this area if you please, but to teach others to do the same because of your own personal opinions concerning music surely must greive the Holy Spirit of God. David used music to sooth Saul's spirit and it drove out the demon for it could not stand it. Praise God!

Sometimes music during prayer is very nice as well. It sooths the spirit and the Holy Spirit confirms as He causes your spirit to melt and move towards God. I don't think you would assign the movement that takes place in one's heart towards God to the work of satan, would you?

Since you mentioned prayer, the bible does not instruct us to bow our heads and close our eyes, so you wouldn't practice this when praying , would you?

 

[steaver]

The difference between a pitch pipe and a piano is that the pitch pipe knows enough to be quiet during the singing.:thumbsup:

Then you would allow the piano to be played in the church service as long as it was not during the singing?

 

[Amy.G]

Further, we have shown time and time again from Scripture that God approves of musical instruments in worship.

Scripture shows this time and again in both Testaments.

The burden of proof remains on those who would assert that this practice God approves is actually something we should not be doing.

A couple of posters insist that we have to justify their use. We do not. Going with JUST THE SCRIPTURES, we cannot say that God disapproves of instruments in worship.

There is not one solitary statement of Scripture that negates God's approval of musical instruments in worship. These people have absolutely no Scriptural justification for adding a ban against what God has repeatedly shown approval of in His written Word.

Oh I agree. I thought I had made my feelings clear when I posted this in post #29:

This has to be one of the silliest arguments I have ever seen on the BB.

I was just curious as to whether BTM could provide scripture for why (in his opinion) God forbids musical instruments in worship.
Of course, I know of no such scripture. But since he is convinced it's wrong, he should be able to provide scripture to prove it. That was my point.

 

[steaver]

What purpose might the soft playing of the piano during prayer serve? I've seen it (back in my Baptist days) used during the invitation, the motive being to keep the "emotional vibe" going to motivate someone to respond. "What's wrong with that" one might ask?

Absolutely nothing! The music (godly music) is a God given tool to sooth and move the human spirit towards God and satan hates it! We see this proven out when Paul played music for Saul and the demon could not stand it.

1Sa 16:23And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

Of course not all music is from God. Satan has his own brand that is meant to draw men away from God. Satan always takes what God has made for good and makes an evil twisted version of it.

 

[BTM]

Oh I agree. I thought I had made my feelings clear when I posted this in post #29:


I was just curious as to whether BTM could provide scripture for why (in his opinion) God forbids musical instruments in worship.
Of course, I know of no such scripture. But since he is convinced it's wrong, he should be able to provide scripture to prove it. That was my point.

Amy G.

(Third time I'm doing this - keep hitting the wrong buttons!)

As has been pointed out, an explicit condemnation of instrumental music in worship does not exist. DOTF and I are pressing the point that an explicit condemnation is not needed. It's called "arguing from silence", and not everyone thinks it's a legitimate way to go. But the Scriptures do it, so I figure it's okay.

Here's an example:

Heb 7:14 - For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

This is in the middle of the writer's presenting Christ as being a priest after the order of Melchisedec, and of the change of law being necessary due to the change in priesthood.

Notice that the writer does not refer back to a scripture that explicitly forbade men from Judah from being priests under the old Law. He simply points out that Moses "spake nothing" about Judah serving as priests.

When God gives specific instructions, all other additions, subtractions, and substitutes are forbidden.

Another example might be God's instruction to Noah to build an ark of gopher wood. Why could he not have built the ark of steel, like modern ships? Or why not build a train out of gopher wood? Or even build an ark out of some other kind of wood?

Simply because the end result would not be what God had commanded him to make. Plus a wooden train wouldn't float very well...

To bring this back to topic, God has specifically commanded concerning the kind of music He wants in NT worship. That kind of music is vocal music, or singing (Eph 5:19; Col 3:16), the fruit of our lips (Heb 13:15).

Again, it's got nothing to do with personal preference or anything like that. Instrumental music is simply not authorized because God has not commanded it.

 

[BTM]

Still waiting for someone to give the definition of "a capella".