MUST A Christian Be Baptised Before Can Observe Communion?

[revmwc]

Yes, we are to baptize new believers but in practicality, not all are baptized immediately upon belief. We have 7 new believers and are working on how to baptize them since we meet in a hotel with no pool. Do we prevent these from taking the Lord's Supper?

Is there a sister church in your area that will allow you to use their baptistry one Sunday afternoon? You should be able to find someone in your area that will work with you on that.

 

[JesusFan]

Can anyone give me clear evidence from Scripture that a believer MUST have been baptized to receive the Lord's Supper?

Think that the ONLY Biblical requirements given to us are:
That the person participating MUST be part of the Body of Christ, which is gained by being Baptised by Holy Spirit into the Body, at point of conversion...
That the Christian needs to have a clear conscience, to be repentant at time of the Supper...

Do NOT see command has to be baptised in water, part of a local Church body as member etc...

BOTH of those ARE important, but do not see them as being essential in order to partake..

We are a North American baptist Church. part of the Great lakes section...

We require only that a person being born again, and be repentant towards known sins...

 

[annsni]

Every circumstance must be looked at, do they want to be baptized? Yes they want to follow the command, the opportunity to be is hindering them. Since they are willing to follow and can't then I believe they are worthy of partaking. Of course that is just revmwcology.

Yes, every one of them desires to be baptized - we just have to figure out how!! We checked with the other hotel that has a pool - can't do it. Checked with the Y - can't do it. We CAN do it at our home church but we'd rather do it in the community these people live and the church is located. It may be that we have to make a request of another Baptist church in the next town. That's next on the list of "to-do".

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Yes, we are to baptize new believers but in practicality, not all are baptized immediately upon belief. We have 7 new believers and are working on how to baptize them since we meet in a hotel with no pool. Do we prevent these from taking the Lord's Supper?

They don't have lakes or rivers where your from? lol

 

[annsni]

Ann, in my view the answer is yes. Paul's comments on the Lord's Supper in I Cor 11 presumes that those participating are baptized members. We have no scriptural command, or example, of unbaptized believers taking the Lord's Supper.

Can you show me that this passage presumes they are baptized? I don't see it in the text.

We my also infer from Paul's comments on the sinning member in Chapter 5 that only members participate. And he told them not to eat with that sinning member, much less fellowship with him. My take is that the fellowship meals were also the setting for the Lord's Supper on occasion, so excluding him from the congregation would also exclude him from the meals, which would also exclude him from the Lord's Supper.

The bolded is the issue. I don't see clear instruction that only the baptized are allowed communion. I do believe we need to instruct new believers to be baptized but in most cases, there is a gap between salvation and baptism and I do not see any support for preventing one from partaking communion if they are a brother or sister in Christ.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Can you show me that this passage presumes they are baptized? I don't see it in the text.



The bolded is the issue. I don't see clear instruction that only the baptized are allowed communion. I do believe we need to instruct new believers to be baptized but in most cases, there is a gap between salvation and baptism and I do not see any support for preventing one from partaking communion if they are a brother or sister in Christ.

Hey Ann,

Perhaps you and your husband could take a look at the following link:
http://www.founders.org/library/dagg_vol2/ch5.html

Specifically, look at Section IV-OPEN COMMUNION

Here are a few highlights:

We have seen that the Lord's supper has been committed to the local churches for observance and perpetuation; and that local churches, if organized according to the Scriptures, contain none but baptized persons. It follows hence, that baptism is a pre-requisite to communion at the Lord's table.

Dagg practiced Closed Communion, but probably not in the sense we might think. He seems to only practice it with regard to unbaptized persons. Baptists have typically held that infant baptism is not baptism, therefore Pedobaptists, while being true Christians, are unbaptized. Therefore, the Lord's Table in their Baptist churches were withheld to Pedobaptists.

But while he has in view strict communion with regard to Pedobaptists, the main point is that the Lord's Table is reserved for baptized persons.

 

[webdog]

Yes, every one of them desires to be baptized - we just have to figure out how!! We checked with the other hotel that has a pool - can't do it. Checked with the Y - can't do it. We CAN do it at our home church but we'd rather do it in the community these people live and the church is located. It may be that we have to make a request of another Baptist church in the next town. That's next on the list of "to-do".

We meet in an industrial building with nowhere to baptize, either. We purchased a plastic yard pond basin and lined it with plastic. With a hose and a few gallons of hot water it does the trick quite nicely. Of course you will need a pump to get the water out, but it is portable and waist deep.


To the OP...were the 12 baptized?

 

[revmwc]

Hey Ann,

Perhaps you and your husband could take a look at the following link:
http://www.founders.org/library/dagg_vol2/ch5.html

Specifically, look at Section IV-OPEN COMMUNION

Here are a few highlights:



Dagg practiced Closed Communion, but probably not in the sense we might think. He seems to only practice it with regard to unbaptized persons. Baptists have typically held that infant baptism is not baptism, therefore Pedobaptists, while being true Christians, are unbaptized. Therefore, the Lord's Table in their Baptist churches were withheld to Pedobaptists.

But while he has in view strict communion with regard to Pedobaptists, the main point is that the Lord's Table is reserved for baptized persons.

It seems odd to assume that everyone in the local church has been baptized. Many aren't, many come into membership by statement of faith and may have never been baptized. Second if baptizism is a prerequisite then there are many Baptized people who aren't even saved so again you run into a problem. That is why Paul said each person must examine themselves to determine if they are worthy. Have they trusted Christ, do they have sin confessed have they or are they willing to follow all of Christ commands.

So if it is for baptized persons only you would then include unbelievers who have been baptized but have never received Christ as Saviour. I know many people who were baptized at an early age atteneded church and later made a profession of faith brecause they weren't saved in the first place. God knows the heart and the person knows their own heart that why it is their responsibilty to judge themselves as worthy or unworthy.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It seems odd to assume that everyone in the local church has been baptized. Many aren't, many come into membership by statement of faith and may have never been baptized. Second if baptizism is a prerequisite then there are many Baptized people who aren't even saved so again you run into a problem. That is why Paul said each person must examine themselves to determine if they are worthy. Have they trusted Christ, do they have sin confessed have they or are they willing to follow all of Christ commands.

So if it is for baptized persons only you would then include unbelievers who have been baptized but have never received Christ as Saviour. I know many people who were baptized at an early age atteneded church and later made a profession of faith brecause they weren't saved in the first place. God knows the heart and the person knows their own heart that why it is their responsibilty to judge themselves as worthy or unworthy.

That it is for baptized persons only is the biblical example. That I have no doubt. The issue you are raising is no more true for churches that permit an unbaptized person to the Lord's Table as to those who do not. You may be be open in your communion and thus permitted pretenders to the Lord's Table who have to right to it, being hypocrits. An unregenerate person is unworthy of Baptism as much as the Lord's Table.

But the Lord's ordinances were not put into the hands of every mere professor to make the judgment, but was entrusted to each local church properly constituted.

I want to add a personal example. I was asked to full a pulpit for a season, and did. I came to find out that there were unabaptized persons in the membership. This congregation also had not taken the Lord's Table in quite some time. I wanted to institute the Lord's Table, but I thought it wise to teach on both Communion and Baptism before I did. After the message on Baptism, a few agreed to be baptized and and we celebrated with the Lord's Table the following Sunday.

 

[Tom Butler]

Can you show me that this passage presumes they are baptized? I don't see it in the text.

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The bolded is the issue. I don't see clear instruction that only the baptized are allowed communion. I do believe we need to instruct new believers to be baptized but in most cases, there is a gap between salvation and baptism and I do not see any support for preventing one from partaking communion if they are a brother or sister in Christ.

Ann, where you start determines where you come out. For example, I hold that baptism and the Lord's are ordinances given to the local church. It is, therefore, a church ordinance, not just a Christian ordinance.

If they are church ordinances, then they are administered by the local church through their authorized representatives (usually the pastors).

So, it follows logically that anyone who desires fellowship with a local church should submit to the authority of that church, which is charged with guarding the ordinances.

Also, remember the first thing that happened to those saved on the day of Pentecost was that they were baptized.

If you start where I did, then you'll come out where I did.

 

[Jim1999]

Baptism is a step in obedience and thus a requirement before partaking of the supper celebrating the Lord's death, burial and resurrection.

Do we want the openly disobedient partaking of the body and blood of Christ?

Cheers,

Jim

 

[webdog]

Baptism is a step in obedience and thus a requirement before partaking of the supper celebrating the Lord's death, burial and resurrection.

Do we want the openly disobedient partaking of the body and blood of Christ?

Cheers,

Jim

Isn't the Lord's Supper also a requirement? If we are not obedient in baptism, does that mean we should also not be obedient in observing His death? If we follow that line of thinking, since we are not baptized, we shouldn't obey any of Christ's commands to the church including the Great Commission.

 

[revmwc]

Baptism is a step in obedience and thus a requirement before partaking of the supper celebrating the Lord's death, burial and resurrection.

Do we want the openly disobedient partaking of the body and blood of Christ?

Cheers,

Jim

Again if the church has no means of performing Baptism do you deny those who want to be Baptize and the church hasn't found the means yet not to partake. They can't be considered disobedient there just isn't a means developed for performing Baptism. That is not the believers fault. The pastor is working to find a solution. By what you are saying they are in disobedience because of the Pastor.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Do believers in cold climates have to wait until it's warm enough to baptize new believers before partaking or are they excluded until they can be baptized? Closed communion churches seem to emphasize the duty of communion rather than the community of communion. Huh, do you see a similarity? community/communion It is not to be yet another duty-based rule for the church to lord over; but a time for brethren in Christ to celebrate the sacrifice that has made us one with the Father.

 

[Alcott]

Anybody can observe it; but as far as I know, in our church one must be a baptized believer to eat and drink it.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Anybody can observe it; but as far as I know, in our church one must be a baptized believer to eat and drink it.

Observe? Is that like the doctrine that some will be observers at the Marriage Supper? I see no command nor examples that force some believers to merely observe communion between other believers. There are no stepchildren in God's family; only in some churches.

 

[Alcott]

I wasn't referring to any doctrine, just that the unbaptised or others can "observe" it being done, unless we throw them out.

 

[Brother Jeremy Slone]

I want to make clear when you exclude a member from the church you are not physically throwing him out of the building so he wont be present. But you are withdrawing the right hand of fellowship from him over his sin that is a reproach to the local church until he repents and confesses to the church body and they receive him again. Then with him restored you offer him the righthand of fellowship again. "with such a one no not to eat" Out side the fellowship he would be withdrawn from membership though he may attend church service there. 2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle. note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. :15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

 

[annsni]

I want to make clear when you exclude a member from the church you are not physically throwing him out of the building so he wont be present. But you are withdrawing the right hand of fellowship from him over his sin that is a reproach to the local church until he repents and confesses to the church body and they receive him again. Then with him restored you offer him the righthand of fellowship again. "with such a one no not to eat" Out side the fellowship he would be withdrawn from membership though he may attend church service there. 2 Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle. note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. :15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

In some cases, it DOES mean to physically throw him out of the building. We had a case like that with a man who liked to almost molest women under the guise of praying with them. In the end, he was not only told to leave and not come back, but when he did come back, he was forceably removed from the church building and the police called. Of course he "had done nothing wrong!!" :BangHead: