Must all true fandamentalisls be Non-Calvinistic? Yes

[Amy.G]

ok, so you still have the exact same issue. Why does God create people he knows will end up in hell?

No I don't. God has to create people in order to be loved by them. But love is a choice. Therefore all people are given a choice. When God has finished with His plan, He will have a family of children that love Him. Those that choose to hate Him will be damned, of their own choice, not God's.

 

[Robert Snow]

Yea then he clarified it in 44....No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. What do you suppose that means....

Also....see below "Were it not .....statement"

God does His drawing through the preaching of the Word of God.

 

[Robert Snow]

You don't know what kind of evangelism my church is involved in. You don't know whether or not I am aggressively reaching the lost for Christ.

The fact of the matter is that my church is one of the fastest growing churches in our county.

I have baptized about 50 in five years.

And that has nothing to do with the prison ministry I am involved in where I have personally led more than 20 to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

We are right now preparing to enter into a building program in our church.

So this comment, like almost every one of yours, is baseless, unwarranted, uninformed, irrational, ignorant, emotional banter.

It is people like you who are the biggest haters of the Doctrines of Grace.

The fact that that is so ought to be a mark in our favor.

Looks like your DoG doctrine has failed to teach you humility at all.

As far as you reaching the lost is concerned, Praise God! The only thing I would add is that hopefully they will finally realize the error of Calvinism.

BTW, you do know that the Charismatic church is also growing by leaps and bounds, as is the Jehovah's Witnesses. Growth alone proves someone would make a good used car salesman, it doen't mean they are preaching the truth!

Now, before you get your undies in a wad, I don't believe you are preaching heresy. I just believe you are adding Calvinism to the Gospel of Christ.

 

[12strings]

Our God is a God of purpose. He does nothing without purpose and meaning. Why do you suppose He only chooses "some" to draw and not all? What is His purpose for this?

I don't really know why, but there are verses in Ephesians, romans, and elsewhere that seem to say this, and I haven't found a satisfactory interpretation that has convinced me otherwise.

 

[jbh28]

No I don't. God has to create people in order to be loved by them. But love is a choice. Therefore all people are given a choice. When God has finished with His plan, He will have a family of children that love Him. Those that choose to hate Him will be damned, of their own choice, not God's.

Amy, you have the same issue. you can pretend you don't, but it's still the same issue. I agree totally that those damned in hell will go their "of their own choice. But that's not the point. The point is that there will be people that God created knowing that they would end up in hell but He could have saved them. No one will be in hell that wanted to come to Christ. No one will be in hell that their choice was Christ.

 

[Luke2427]

Looks like your DoG doctrine has failed to teach you humility at all.

As far as you reaching the lost is concerned, Praise God! The only thing I would add is that hopefully they will finally realize the error of Calvinism.

BTW, you do know that the Charismatic church is also growing by leaps and bounds, as is the Jehovah's Witnesses. Growth alone proves someone would make a good used car salesman, it doen't mean they are preaching the truth!

Now, before you get your undies in a wad, I don't believe you are preaching heresy. I just believe you are adding Calvinism to the Gospel of Christ.

It is not a deficiency of humility to set you straight concerning your hateful and unfounded accusations.

I only notified you that numeorus people have come to Christ here through God's gracious hand on my ministry because you accused me of what you accused me.

If you want to talk humility, I will be glad to engage you in that topic.

Humility is not- thinking that you don't need anyone to help you understand the Scripture.

Humility is certainly not- ignoring the history of the Christian Church and saying "Who needs it!?! The HOLY GHOST speaks to ME!!"

Humility is not spitting on your forefathers, many of whom were Calvinists and MOST of whom were Protestant, to whom you owe a great debt for everything that you have.

Humility is not- being horrifically uneducated and yet speaking with the authority of one who has invested multiplied thousands of dollars and hours and sweat and tears to be trained by some of the worlds brightest theologians. And at the same time snubbing your uneducated nose at the ones who do make such sacrifice as if they wasted their time because they are STILL not as smart theologically as YOU ARE. Why? Because GOD SPEAKS TO YOU!!!!! BTW, I am not one of those. I do not have such a degree. So I am not talking about myself.

Humility is not attacking a theological viewpoint as near heresy which some of the greatest churches and preachers and missionaries of all time heartily embraced. Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield, Charles Spurgeon, William Carey, Adoniram Judson, John Knox, W. A. Criswell, etc...

Here's a fact. Those, like yourself, who start attacks on other's humility are usually the ones who are the least humble themselves. And those that they call arrogant are often far better examples of humility than they who questioned their humility are.

A Bible Study on what humility ACTUALLY is would do some folks a lot of good- if only they were humble enough to benefit from it.

 

[JesusFan]

God does His drawing through the preaching of the Word of God.

Where would the people that get saved receive their faith from though?

is it a part of us 'naturally?"

Do we have sinful natures that are at war against God and CANNOT submit to Him or not?( as per the Bible!)

 

[Phillip]

Good post Van.

And, I didn't have to have 3 Masters Degrees, a Doctorate, and a library full of books on Calvinism to understand what you said.

It's ok to have those credentials, I wish I had them. But it doesn't take them to understand the basic doctrine of salvation of the Bible.

Many Bible scholars have used their vast research to "prove" atheism.

Many Bible scholars have used their vast research to "prove" that God created some people gay, and that God even sanctions gay relationships.

And also, many Bible scholars have used their vast research to "prove" that God created some men to be saved, but for most to go to Hell, without even the oppurtunity for salvation.

It's not the education I loathe, I wish I had more, it is the perversion of the education to the point that scripture, Holy Scripture, given to us by our Lord and Savior, is used to promote ungodly doctrines.

John

Very good point. Since I have been attending an extremely legalistic IFB with my daughter's family lately, I have noticed their lack of believing in Calvanism (or vice versa in many SBC churches I have attended) is simply the way they interpret it. Being that God has fore-knowledge of everything then it would be easy to say that He has "picked" those people to go to hell or heaven. We could argue over that issue until we are red in the face, but the bottom line is that since God is knows all, his knowledge of what happens in His creation could be interpreted in several ways ranging from full Arminianism to full Calvanism and the result is the same, God is all-knowing. This is the reason I don't like the Calvanistic title. I just say that I believe the Bible and not some man's specific description of what he thinks it says even though he may be right partially and also partially wrong depending on which angle you are viewing the argument from.