Must Christians Be Pacifists

[Palatka51]

The facts are evident unless one has been asleep. Cheney ran the company. He got himself appointed to be Dubya's puppeteer. All of a sudden, the administration lies us into an invasion, and guess who gets the no-bid government contracts? If there is no impropriety, it sure does have the appearance of conflict of interest, dontcha think? And Enron is relevant, as it demonstrates how the corporate buddies of BushCo resorted to illegal acts for self enrichment. It establishes a pattern of behavior amongst this corrupt cartel and criminal executives in Houston. As they say in Texas, "Biddness as usual."

All conjectured hearsay. And Obama is paying off Acorn by granting them the funds to manipulate the census as they did the election.

Please let's not go down this road.

 

[OldRegular]

I also disagree with the premise that the US is the policeman of the world.

This thread is about pacifism and the Christian.:BangHead: If you want to discuss the role of the US as policeman of the world start your own thread. :applause:Thanking you in advance!:thumbs:

 

[Robert Snow]

The facts are evident unless one has been asleep. Cheney ran the company. He got himself appointed to be Dubya's puppeteer. All of a sudden, the administration lies us into an invasion, and guess who gets the no-bid government contracts? If there is no impropriety, it sure does have the appearance of conflict of interest, dontcha think? And Enron is relevant, as it demonstrates how the corporate buddies of BushCo resorted to illegal acts for self enrichment. It establishes a pattern of behavior amongst this corrupt cartel and criminal executives in Houston. As they say in Texas, "Biddness as usual."

Exactly! :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[Robert Snow]

'Tis such a shame; this thread was going great until the last half of post #13.

Pity!!!

Feel free to leave the thread if you want to.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

The facts are evident unless one has been asleep. Cheney ran the company. He got himself appointed to be Dubya's puppeteer. All of a sudden, the administration lies us into an invasion, and guess who gets the no-bid government contracts? If there is no impropriety, it sure does have the appearance of conflict of interest, dontcha think? And Enron is relevant, as it demonstrates how the corporate buddies of BushCo resorted to illegal acts for self enrichment. It establishes a pattern of behavior amongst this corrupt cartel and criminal executives in Houston. As they say in Texas, "Biddness as usual."

Kinda reminds me of the zero & his buddies at ACORN. Same situation, same conflicts. Just that one is celebrated, and the other is a lightning rod.

And aren't you tired of saying the same old lie about the invasion ? Why can't you admit it was both parties that got us into Iraq ?

 

[moscott]

Christians pacifists? David & Goliath, Sodom & Gamorrah, First born sons, plagues etc...Jesus is God!


http://www.hoshuha.com/articles/pacifism.html

 

[OldRegular]

Here's your answer:thumbs:

http://www.hoshuha.com/articles/pacifism.html

A well thought out discussion. Thanks!:thumbs:

 

[OldRegular]

This thread is about the Christian and pacifism. Those who want to bash Bush and company please start their own discussion.

 

[billwald]

>Christians pacifists? David & Goliath, Sodom & Gamorrah, First born sons, plagues etc...Jesus is God!

These guys were Jews. What does the Mosaic Covenant have to do with Christians in Milwaukee?

Christians should trust God and not have to kill people who don't like them.

 

[LeBuick]

Jesus Christ commands the following:

Matthew 5:44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.

In light of the above Scripture must Christians be pacifists?

I am starting this thread because of the pious indignation shown by some over the water boarding of three Islamic terrorists which yielded information that prevented further attacks like 9/11. These folks have used the above passage to justify their indignation.

It's not about being a pacifist, it's about being better than the world. Anyone can hate their enemies but it takes a strong, courageous man who is called out from this world and transformed to Love his enemies. I really think you are looking at the verse from the wrong perspective. It takes great strength to Love in the face of adversity.

 

[LeBuick]

Christians pacifists? David & Goliath, Sodom & Gamorrah, First born sons, plagues etc...Jesus is God!


http://www.hoshuha.com/articles/pacifism.html

All before Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you etc..."

I read this thread and believe some are missing what Love is truly about. Turning the other cheek is not easy or a natural response. Loving ones enemies is not something everyone is capable of.

Also, in all those events we saw the Hand of God bringing victory and not man. We see the Hand of God today in many ways working on behalf of good in this war against terror. There is no need for us to compromise His values because it is He who fights our battles and He who will make us victorious in the end.

 

[donnA]

I've noticed that those saying we are be pacifists are the ones we frequently see attacking others.

 

[Revmitchell]

All before Jesus said, "A new commandment I give you etc..."

I read this thread and believe some are missing what Love is truly about. Turning the other cheek is not easy or a natural response. Loving ones enemies is not something everyone is capable of.

Also, in all those events we saw the Hand of God bringing victory and not man. We see the Hand of God today in many ways working on behalf of good in this war against terror. There is no need for us to compromise His values because it is He who fights our battles and He who will make us victorious in the end.

Do you not believe in separation of church and state?

 

[LeBuick]

Do you not believe in separation of church and state?

Separation of church and state is a theory. It implies each institution has a distinct but separate purpose. It allows believers to co-exist with non-believers in a functional government. It is the part of the Constitution that guarantees us freedom of religion.

In the end you can't take the religion out of a religious person just like you can't expect or demand a non-believer to uphold Christian values. Example, if we loaded the SCOTUS with pro-life evangelicals Roe v Wade would be overturned. The court is still functioning as the state but it's decisions will be a reflection of the people who occupy the bench.

In a pure Christian nation, Government will be a reflection of Christian values because even though state will be "separate" from the Church, there is no other input aside from followers of Christ. This is why I don't find it acceptable for Christians to hide support for worldly values behind the word "Government". A Christian should always have Christian values even if Government is totally evil.

This also explains why a Christian can vote for a candidate that is 51% good and 49% evil. You don't agree with or support the 49% evil agenda, you support them for the 51% good then pray that God will intervene on the 49% evil. If we were to use Obama as an example, you will note he didn't make the Freedom of Choice act priority like he said in his campaign. You will note his position has softened to tolerance of each other when he gave the Notre Dane address. I believe it's because we have a God that sure will answer prayers.

So yes you can separate Church from a non-believer but a true believer can't be separated from that which they believe.

Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[LeBuick]

I've noticed that those saying we are be pacifists are the ones we frequently see attacking others.

If you are referring to me, I never said we should be pacifist. If you look closely I said we should resist and fight with Christian values like Love. Love is indefensible to those who don't understand it.

 

[Revmitchell]

Separation of church and state is a theory. It implies each institution has a distinct but separate purpose. It allows believers to co-exist with non-believers in a functional government. It is the part of the Constitution that guarantees us freedom of religion.

In the end you can't take the religion out of a religious person just like you can't expect or demand a non-believer to uphold Christian values. Example, if we loaded the SCOTUS with pro-life evangelicals Roe v Wade would be overturned. The court is still functioning as the state but it's decisions will be a reflection of the people who occupy the bench.

In a pure Christian nation, Government will be a reflection of Christian values because even though state will be "separate" from the Church, there is no other input aside from followers of Christ. This is why I don't find it acceptable for Christians to hide support for worldly values behind the word "Government". A Christian should always have Christian values even if Government is totally evil.

This also explains why a Christian can vote for a candidate that is 51% good and 49% evil. You don't agree with or support the 49% evil agenda, you support them for the 51% good then pray that God will intervene on the 49% evil. If we were to use Obama as an example, you will note he didn't make the Freedom of Choice act priority like he said in his campaign. You will note his position has softened to tolerance of each other when he gave the Notre Dane address. I believe it's because we have a God that sure will answer prayers.

So yes you can separate Church from a non-believer but a true believer can't be separated from that which they believe.

Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Sorry but you libbies condemn conservatives for holding to Christian values in politics cry out separation of church and state but use Christians values when it is convenient and only when it is convenient.

 

[OldRegular]

If you are referring to me, I never said we should be pacifist. If you look closely I said we should resist and fight with Christian values like Love. Love is indefensible to those who don't understand it.

I am sure that Saddam was impressed by the love of those he fed feet first into shredders!

 

[billwald]

http://www.alternet.org/world/14028...ilitary_attacks,_and_no_one_is_taking_credit/

Christian values to fight secret wars with private armies?

 

[OldRegular]

Sorry but you libbies condemn conservatives for holding to Christian values in politics cry out separation of church and state but use Christians values when it is convenient and only when it is convenient.

If my memory is correct each time a Christian condemns abortion and abortionists they are slammed as one issue voters by liberals on this Forum!

 

[Palatka51]

>Christians pacifists? David & Goliath, Sodom & Gamorrah, First born sons, plagues etc...Jesus is God!

These guys were Jews. What does the Mosaic Covenant have to do with Christians in Milwaukee?

Christians should trust God and not have to kill people who don't like them.

Abraham conducted and won a war long before there was the Mosaic Covenant.