Must salvation include correct doctrine?

[wopik]

Is it possible to deny the Sabbath as God's truth and still be saved? Yes.

A key ingredient of the Salvation Process IS doctrine. Much, if not all doctrine is about Salvation and the Plan of God.

Doctrine is the Word of God. We MUST immerse ourselves into the Word of God as part of the Salvation Process.

God set the standards...not man or the ministry.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Russ and DHK,

Like I said, the Seventh-day Adventists and the Roman Catholics do not have a monopoly are grossly false doctrine.

 

[Russ Kelly]

Craig and wopik:
Add wopik to that list of yours.

If Sabbath-keeping is a doctrine necessary for salvation, then---
1. No sabbath-keeper can be saved if he/she lives in cold climates because they are not allowed to kindle fires -- they would freeze to death. If they didn't freeze, then their fellow Sabbath-keepers are commanded to kill them.
2. They could not turn on their water faucets becausse somebody at the water department would be forced to work.
3. The same logic is true for using electricity, flushing the toilet, driving their car to church, cooking or warming up food, letting their refrigerator run, etc, etc, etc.

The 4th commandment forbids causing somebody else to work also!!!!! Thank God for Hebrews 4:3.

Teh sabbath commandment implies slave ownership --- I suppose that is O.K. with wopik.

Rather than get intdo a discussion on the Sabbath, wopik's argument proves that his idea of salvation is exclusive to Sabath-keepers.

Isn't it strange that God actually commanded Israel not to share covenants with other nations! Not one grain of tithed food was alloted for missionary activity.

 

[DHK]

Wopik,
If you look on a map, and find out where I live (Edmonton, Alberta), near the end of June it starts getting light at 4:00 a.m. and doesn't get dark until about 11:00 p.m. If the Bible teaches that the Sabbath is from sunset to sunset, you'll be keeping your family up fairly late each night.

But that's where I live. Go a few miles north of here. In fact if you go quite a few miles north to a place like Alert, NWT, or Inuvik, or some of those other northerly places you have two full months where the sun never sets. You also have two full months where the sun never rises. If you're a Sabbath-keeper, what are you going to do if the Lord calls you there? More importantly if keeping the Sabbath is a requirement for salvation what do those people do who live there?

The sun will rise on one day, and then it will not set for two more months. How long is their day? Can you go without doing any work for that long?

While many European countries experience long hours of daylight in summer and equally long hours of darkness in winter, the Arctic region is unique because during June and July each year, the sun literally does not set. There is constant daylight for about 60 consecutive days. Similarly, in winter, the sun does not rise, and there is complete darkness for two months straight.

The path of the Midnight SunThe ‘Land of the Midnight Sun’ is more than just tourism marketing hype, but for visitors who are not used to such extremes in daylight and darkness, this phenomenon is simply bizarre.

DHK
Land of the Midnight Sun

 

[Craigbythesea]

DHK,

If it is too difficult for you to keep the Sabbath where you are now living, you need to move south (but not too close to me, please!).

Proof text:

Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
CBTS 6:66 And if thy living too far north offend thee, sell thy house, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy houses should perish, and not that thy body should be cast into hell.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
DHK,

If it is too difficult for you to keep the Sabbath where you are now living, you need to move south (but not too close to me, please!).

It is not me that I am concerned about. It is you perhaps. But especially the Inuit people who live beyond the Arctic Circle, and need the gospel. God put them there for a reason, and no doubt will send you there as a missionary. If you start refusing now, it is all the more of a sign that He has called you.
John 3:16 teaches us that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He wasn't just speaking about America, although the northern reaches of Alaska are still part of America. He was speaking of all the world including the Eskimos, the Inuit, and the other aboriginal tribes. It would be very difficult to lay up enough food so as not to cook for an entire month, but not impossible. Many of the Inuit eat frozen raw Caribou. So you wouldn't have to cook that meat, just peel it off the carcass. In the summer you can always get water from a near-by iceberg floating by--some of the purest in the world. But not to worry, the locals up there will teach how to survive. I am not sure they will teach you how to keep the Sabbath, especially if it is 2 months long, but they will teach you how to survive--igloo and all. I can just taste that caribou meat now!
DHK

 

[Russ Kelly]

Craig said "If it is too difficult for you to keep the Sabbath where you are now living, you need to move south (but not too close to me, please!)."

Now that is really funny!!!! Craig, you have outdone yourself!! From now on I am not going to take anything you say seriously!!

While we are at it, tell your children not to become astronauts -- the Sabbath may come every few hours and when you get back on earth you will be out of sync.

The Internatiional Date Line also presents an unsurmonountable problem. One foot can be on Saturday and the other on Sunday -- or Friday adn Saturday.

As a former SDA pastor, I tried to ignore these arguments. The hardest is that God did not care whether or not nations other than Israel kept the Sabbath because they were not intended to keep his covenant with Israel.

It is clear that the Sabbath was not part of the so-called MORAL LAW and was purely cultic for Israel under the Old Covenant.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by DHK:
Either you are ignorant of Baptist beliefs, or ignorant of Catholic beliefs, or are ignorant of the beliefs of both...DHK

Apparently you are ignorant of historical Baptist beliefs as well. Baptist beliefs go all the way from universalism to calvinism and everything in between. Even Henry Blackaby stated recently that most who call themselves conservative are practical atheists. A practical atheist is an atheist.

 

[Craigbythesea]

From now on I am not going to take anything you say seriously!!

What else is new?

Hi Russ,

When did you say you were going to buy that 42 foot motor home? I think that DHK wants the two of us (you and I) to drive up north and do some missionary work and build a SDA Church out of blocks of ice and invite the Pope to be the inaugural speaker.

 

[Russ Kelly]

I think that this thread has about melted away. Thanks for all the good input.

Craig, you are a wimp. I will soon be 60 but enjoy roughing it on the hard ground and hiking in the mountains of North Georgia. You just want the 42 foot motor home so you can bring all of your books along. He! Ha!
..................................

As far as the Baptist Confessions are concerned, Google and the SBC.net both have good links to all of the histoical Baptist Confessions dating back to 1649. In 1649 they were definitely Calvinists, had no idea of Dispensationalism, called the Pop Antichrist, and did not pay their preachers full-time salaries. My goodness, have we changed!

See you on another thread. God bless.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Uncle Russ,

Thank you for your fellowship in this and other threads

, and for giving me several opportunities to practice being a Christian during times of trial .

Yes, Baptists have changed, but the Bible upon which we base our beliefs has not changed. All that has really changed are the minds of the Baptists. And even I have done that a few times. Maybe you should give it a try!

Take care, Russ, and be good.