Must we obey the gospel to be saved???

SolaScriptura · Jun 13, 2002

Going on that formula, please tell me what magic there is in water to bring about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer.
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For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (Rom 6:5)

Death
Burial
Resurrection

Repentance = Death
WaterBaptism = Burial
Reception of Holy Spirit = Resurrection

Please read Romans 6

Why all this superstition about H2O?
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I've said repeatedly that baptism's power is not in the water but in the promise of Christ (Mark 16:16) and in Christ which you are baptized into (Rom 6), in His death which you are baptized into (Rom 6) and the resurrection of Jesus Christ as Peter says in 1 Peter 3:21.

You say that the Holy Spirit comes only after you get dunked in water??
Thus you believe in a works salvation
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No, I believe what Peter said in Acts 2:38 & 1 Peter 3:21, and I believe what Jesus said in Mark 16:16, and also what Paul says in Romans 6

...ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine...Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.(Rom 6:17-18)

Paul places freedom from sin AFTER obedience to some form of doctrine - what form of doctrine is that? Seeing as how the context is speaking of baptism that "form of doctrine" must be baptism.

DHK, you have obviously rejected the Word of God, so there is not point in me discussing this with you anymore. May God open your eyes to the truth!

[ June 13, 2002, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]

DHK · Jun 13, 2002

Originally posted by SolaScriptura:

...ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine...Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.(Rom 6:17-18)

Paul places freedom from sin AFTER obedience to some form of doctrine - what form of doctrine is that? Seeing as how the context is speaking of baptism that "form of doctrine" must be baptism.

DHK, you have obviously rejected the Word of God, so there is not point in me discussing this with you anymore. May God open your eyes to the truth!
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It is not I that has rejected the Word of God. A good example of twisting the Scriptures to fit one's own theology is given by you in your above explanation of Romans 6:17,18.
"That form of doctrine" speaks nothing of baptism whatsoever. You are reading baptism into that verse to accomodate your own heresy. "That form of doctrine" of course is the gospel. They had obeyed the gospel. They had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and were saved. They had called upon His name. They had trusted Him as their Saviour. The chapter speaks of serving two masters. You cannot. You will be a servant to the master to whom you yield yourself. That is what Paul is teaching.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

In verse 17 he refers back to their past unsaved condition, by way of example, but the whole of the chapter is addressing the believer and his relationship to sin. Look at verse 16: Whose servant are you going to be? The servant of sin, which will result in death? Or, the servant of righteousness? You cannot serve two masters. He is speaking of who is going to reign or be Lord in your (the believer's) life. This has nothing to do with baptism at this point.
Verse 11 he says to reckon yourself to be dead indeed unto sin. Crucify the flesh. Put it to death. Count it as dead. Don't give into the flesh or to sin. Sin is not your master.

Regarding verses 3 to 5 which do speak of baptism, they do not speak of baptism having any special grace or saving merit. It speaks of baptism simply as a picture, a symbol of our death with Christ, and our resurrection unto a new life in Christ. It is a picture of what happened at salvation. For me it was a picture of what happened two years previous to my baptism. I don't know how you explain that. You haven't attempted to yet.
DHK
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SolaScriptura · Jun 13, 2002

In Acts 8:35 when Philip joined the chariot of the eunuch, the Bible says Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. Philip "preached Jesus to him." That's all the Bible says! THat's all Philip preached! Philip "preached Jesus to him" and that's all he preached! He didn't preach baptism, yet somehow the eunuch miraculously understood that he needed to be baptized. Philip didn't even preach baptism to the eunuch! He preached Jesus, yet the eunuch knew baptism was necessary, but I've preached baptism to you until I was blue in the face, and you still haven't gotten it. I'm done, and I'm shaking the dust off of my feet. Why don't you go pay the eunuch a visit and ask him how he understood baptism without ever hearing one sermon on it!!!!!

Alex · Jun 14, 2002

SORRY....Had to delete my comments...........wrong thread!! If it didn't delete my comments, forgive me as I thought I was on the Mormon thread.

God Bless..........Alex

[ June 14, 2002, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]

Must we obey the gospel to be saved???

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