My amended view regarding new covenant salvation

[evangelist-7]

Might as well start 2014 off with a bang!

Scripture reconciliation: This is what I see in the NT as to how all things fit together.
God has somewhat hidden various spiritual truths in Scripture (for obvious reasons).

First things first: The easy-believism verses must mean that “believe” refers to
a permanent and saving belief-faith-trust which endures until death … because
15+ NT verses absolutely and emphatically teach that it is necessary to endure!
However, I will not insist that “pisteou” (believe) includes obedience.
Paul’s verses about the necessity of the athlete to finish the race to receive the prize
parallels the passages about believers enduring in faith until the very end for salvation.

This may be revolutionary, but IMO …
The NT is speaking ONLY to a select and secret group who are God’s “elect”.
All of the many blessings and explanations about salvation are directed at them.
And all of the warnings about falling away from the faith are also directed at them,
which obviously serve a purpose. These are not lies because … if someone was to
fall away permanently, they would not receive eternal life (they would not be elect).

Almighty God knows all things … He has seen the end from the beginning, etc.

Who is this secret “elect” group?
We have a hint in Ephesians and Colossians …
Paul is addressing ONLY the saints who are “faithful”.

The elect were foreknown and predestined to be chosen and called to be faithful.
They were chosen by God’s grace (unmerited favor), and not because of any works.

The elect are called to be overcomers

In Jesus’ letters to all 7 churches (in Revelation 2 & 3),
He stressed the necessity of them being overcomers! And He repeats this here:
Revelation 21:7 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things,
and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
Another hint: all things include eternal life!

One way the elect are overcomers is by NOT living like these people …
Revelation 21:8 • “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Lists such as this describe people who are habitual and unrepentant sinners.
Note: 1 John 1:7-10 explains …
the elect take care of their occasional sins by confessing and repenting of them.

The elect are called to overcome that which Jesus overcame …
Revelation 3:21 • “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
Jesus overcame Satan and his demons, temptations to sin, and what else?

Scripture says the elect are called to do all of the following, and IMO they will:
• have a personal relationship with God
• live obediently to God’s commands
• be sanctified by the Holy Spirit
• live holy lives
• live in righteousness
• not be involved in habitual unrepentant sin

Any which-way one looks at the NT realistically … relationship, fleeing from sin,
obedience, and sanctification unto holiness are required for receiving eternal life.
.

 

[BobRyan]

Much to the consternation of some Calvinists - God does nothing out of the absolute ignorance of what He foreknows. This is what surprises some Calvinists.

Romans 8

[FONT=&quot]29 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For those whom He foreknew[/FONT][FONT=&quot], He also [/FONT][FONT=&quot]predestined to become conformed[/FONT][FONT=&quot] to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
30 and these whom [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He predestined, He also called; and[/FONT][FONT=&quot] these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]who are chosen[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
2 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work [/FONT][FONT=&quot]of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.[/FONT]

 

[evangelist-7]

1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens,
scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit,
to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Been to Galatia and Cappadocia ... Awesome!
.

 

[steaver]

Might as well start 2014 off with a bang!

Scripture reconciliation: This is what I see in the NT as to how all things fit together.
God has somewhat hidden various spiritual truths in Scripture (for obvious reasons).


Any which-way one looks at the NT realistically … relationship, fleeing from sin,
obedience, and sanctification unto holiness are required for receiving eternal life.
.

1Cr2:1-16
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6
¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8
Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Let the readers of this debate understand from the Scripture that there is NO such thing as Paul carefully hiding things from ANY of God's children, rather the exact opposite is true as we can clearly read from the Scripture. Paul and the other Apostles teach God's children through very clear messages, working with the Holy Spirit working in each and every born-again child of God, so you may freely know what God has given us.

Do not be deceived by any outside sources which directly contradict what the Apostle Paul has told you concerning this "hidden message" lies. This is antichrist in nature. God freely gives to His children all understanding through His Apostles and the baptism of the Holy Spirit you received when you first believed. Stay close to the faith once delivered unto the saints and do not let any of these man-made traditions shipwreck your faith.

God speed to all of you truly born of God children out there!!! Blessings!!

 

[evangelist-7]

Let the readers of this debate understand from the Scripture that
there is NO such thing as Paul carefully hiding things from ANY of God's children,
rather the exact opposite is true as we can clearly read from the Scripture.

IMO, you have NO idea what Paul is talking about part of the time (or a lot of the time)!

And I will easily prove it ...

Tell us in one short quick sentence what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.
(Hint: don't bother checking your fav commentaries).

Da Rolfster is chafing at the bit, but I'll restrain him for now.
.

 

[steaver]

IMO, you have NO idea what Paul is talking about part of the time (or a lot of the time)!

And I will easily prove it ...

Tell us in one short quick sentence what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.
(Hint: don't bother checking your fav commentaries).

Da Rolfster is chafing at the bit, but I'll restrain him for now.
.

IMO, you have NO idea what Paul is talking about part of the time (or a lot of the time)!

And I will easily prove it ...

Tell us in one short quick sentence what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.
(Hint: don't bother checking your fav commentaries).

 

[evangelist-7]

Just what I expected from el Steavadorfus.

He has proved again to be a big phony.

Simple challenge ... and he runs for dem dar hills!

Ditto for what happened with the previous challenge to the DHK.

Phonies and deceivers ... who cannot deal with the challenges in Scripture.

I explain what their verses mean, but they run from explaining my verses.

They'd rather stick with their age-old false doctrines than face the music, er ... truth.

Chances are great that they're scared to death of the truth presented in Scripture!

Truly pathetic.
.

 

[steaver]

Just what I expected from el Steavadorfus.

He has proved again to be a big phony.

Simple challenge ... and he runs for dem dar hills!

Ditto for what happened with the previous challenge to the DHK.

Phonies and deceivers ... who cannot deal with the challenges in Scripture.

I explain what their verses mean, but they run from explaining my verses.

They'd rather stick with their age-old false doctrines than face the music, er ... truth.

Chances are great that they're scared to death of the truth presented in Scripture!

Truly pathetic.
.

Just what I expected from el E7.

He has proved again to be a big phony.

Simple challenge ... and he runs for dem dar hills!

Phonies and deceivers ... who cannot deal with the challenges in Scripture.

I explain what their verses mean, but they run from explaining my verses.

They'd rather stick with their age-old false doctrines than face the music, er ... truth.

Chances are great that they're scared to death of the truth presented in Scripture!

Truly pathetic.

 

[Yeshua1]

Might as well start 2014 off with a bang!

Scripture reconciliation: This is what I see in the NT as to how all things fit together.
God has somewhat hidden various spiritual truths in Scripture (for obvious reasons).

First things first: The easy-believism verses must mean that “believe” refers to
a permanent and saving belief-faith-trust which endures until death … because
15+ NT verses absolutely and emphatically teach that it is necessary to endure!
However, I will not insist that “pisteou” (believe) includes obedience.
Paul’s verses about the necessity of the athlete to finish the race to receive the prize
parallels the passages about believers enduring in faith until the very end for salvation.

This may be revolutionary, but IMO …
The NT is speaking ONLY to a select and secret group who are God’s “elect”.
All of the many blessings and explanations about salvation are directed at them.
And all of the warnings about falling away from the faith are also directed at them,
which obviously serve a purpose. These are not lies because … if someone was to
fall away permanently, they would not receive eternal life (they would not be elect).

Almighty God knows all things … He has seen the end from the beginning, etc.

Who is this secret “elect” group?
We have a hint in Ephesians and Colossians …
Paul is addressing ONLY the saints who are “faithful”.

The elect were foreknown and predestined to be chosen and called to be faithful.
They were chosen by God’s grace (unmerited favor), and not because of any works.

The elect are called to be overcomers

In Jesus’ letters to all 7 churches (in Revelation 2 & 3),
He stressed the necessity of them being overcomers! And He repeats this here:
Revelation 21:7 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things,
and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
Another hint: all things include eternal life!

One way the elect are overcomers is by NOT living like these people …
Revelation 21:8 • “But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in
the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Lists such as this describe people who are habitual and unrepentant sinners.
Note: 1 John 1:7-10 explains …
the elect take care of their occasional sins by confessing and repenting of them.

The elect are called to overcome that which Jesus overcame …
Revelation 3:21 • “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,
as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
Jesus overcame Satan and his demons, temptations to sin, and what else?

Scripture says the elect are called to do all of the following, and IMO they will:
• have a personal relationship with God
• live obediently to God’s commands
• be sanctified by the Holy Spirit
• live holy lives
• live in righteousness
• not be involved in habitual unrepentant sin

Any which-way one looks at the NT realistically … relationship, fleeing from sin,
obedience, and sanctification unto holiness are required for receiving eternal life.
.

ALL those whom God elected unto elernal life shall be secured and presented to God, NONE shall be lost!

calvinists and arminians differ on how/what makes us one of the elect, but once saved by Grace of God, Romans 8 promises ALL saved shall stay saved, no exceptions!

 

[Yeshua1]

IMO, you have NO idea what Paul is talking about part of the time (or a lot of the time)!

And I will easily prove it ...

Tell us in one short quick sentence what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.
(Hint: don't bother checking your fav commentaries).

Da Rolfster is chafing at the bit, but I'll restrain him for now.
.

was jesus a liar when he claimed ALL that he saved, shall stay saved by God forver?

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 4 15 Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Matt 10:22 but it is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.

Heb 2:1-3
1. For this reason we must pay close attention to what have heard lest we drift away from it

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 3:6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Heb 3:12-14
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called ""Today,'' so that none of you will be hardened
by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


Heb 10:35-39
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
37 FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY.
38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

1Cor 15:1-2
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
Rom 11:22
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness,
if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Col 1:21-23
22 He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death in order to PRESENT you before Him
Holy and Blameless and beyond reproach
23 If indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast and not moved away
from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven
and of which i paul was made a minister.


Rev 2:7,11,17,26 3:5, 12,21 Eternal life to 'he who overcomes'.

Gal 6:7-9 Don't lose heart in doing good for reap et life IF we ..
8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the
Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.

Mark 13:13 Belief + enduring to the end = saved
Matthew 24:13 ""But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved."
Matthew 10:22 "You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one
who has endured to the end who will be saved."

2Peter 1:10-11
8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as
you practice these things, you will never stumble;
11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.


God's Word giving Real Warning - to Endure/Perservere.

2Peter 2:20-22
18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality,
those who barely escape from the ones who live in error,
19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it,
to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "" a dog returns to its own vomit,'' and,
""A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.''

Heb 6:4-8
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been
made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify
to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open same.
7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also
tilled, receives a blessing from God;
8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.


[/FONT]

 

[evangelist-7]

Just a short list of el Roberto's favorite passages, which obviously destroy OSAS!

Well done again, bro'.

How many more years do we have to list these precious warnings before the Lord returns?
Don't answer, 'bro, for you don't know.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

Let it be noted that Steaver refuses to give us one sentence
on what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.

I believe he has NO idea what Paul was getting at!

Can't finger out whether to laugh

... or cry!

OK with y'all if I duz both?

 

[steaver]

Let it be noted that Steaver refuses to give us one sentence
on what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.

I believe he has NO idea what Paul was getting at!

Can't finger out whether to laugh

... or cry!

OK with y'all if I duz both?

Paul didn't write any chapters. He did speak often concerning the gifts of God and gave us this conclusion...."the gifts and callings of God are IRREVOCABLE!!!! Praise Jesus!!!!

 

[evangelist-7]

I am most pleased to announce this proud addition to the OP of the thread (cancelled by DHK),
which is a most esteemed list of passages concerning the absolute necessity of
enduring with your faith until the end of your life ... to attain eternal life ...

Heb 3:6,14 • Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are,
if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
… For we have become partakers of Christ,
if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end ...
.

 

[steaver]

… For we have become partakers of Christ,
if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end ...
.

All the NT writers exhort that unless one continues following Christ, one was not really truly in Christ.

Very Simple......

 

[Yeshua1]

IMO, you have NO idea what Paul is talking about part of the time (or a lot of the time)!

And I will easily prove it ...

Tell us in one short quick sentence what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.
(Hint: don't bother checking your fav commentaries).

Da Rolfster is chafing at the bit, but I'll restrain him for now.
.

ONLY one group of elect of God, for either you are elcted by Him and now are "in Christ", or else still found "In Adam"

Romasn 8 applies to ALl saved persons, as ALL predestined and WILL be glorifed and raised up by Jesus!

 

[evangelist-7]

Romasn 8 applies to ALl saved persons, as ALL predestined and WILL be glorifed and raised up by Jesus!

Gee, another OSASer who won't try to understand Romans 6.
Maybe he's just not capable.

Tell us in one short quick sentence what Paul's main purpose was in writing Romans Chapter 6.
.