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My God, My God, Why hast thou forsaken me?

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Thorwald

Member
Site Supporter
Every Christian minister that has discussed the reason why Christ called out on the cross, after He attempted to 'give up His life', teaches that The Father could not look upon the sin that Christ had taken upon Himself, and therefore looked away for a moment.

I believe that Christ was allowed to be TEMPTED BY SATAN. Had Christ 'cursed' His Father (since The Father had commanded that Christ had the power to give up His life, and take it back again), Christ's work would have been in vain. Christ believed that His work was done. Apparently, it wasn't. :jesus:
 
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convicted1

Guest
Thorwald said:
Every Christian minister that has discussed the reason why Christ called out on the cross, after He attempted to 'give up His life', teaches that The Father could not look upon the sin that Christ had taken upon Himself, and therefore looked away for a moment.

I believe that Christ was allowed to be TEMPTED BY SATAN. Had Christ 'cursed' His Father (since The Father had commanded that Christ had the power to give up His life, and take it back again), Christ's work would have been in vain. Christ believed that His work was done. Apparently, it wasn't. :jesus:
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First off, Christ never "attempted" to give up His life, He did give it up. He gave His life to be a ransom for many. God has never "tried" to do anything. He did it.

Please elaborate on that last sentence and what you are trying to convey in regards to Christ's work not being finished at that time.
 
J

Jerry Shugart

New Member
Thorwald said:
Christ believed that His work was done. Apparently, it wasn't.
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Why did the Lord Jesus say, "It is finished" before He died physically?

Two Deaths on the Cross?

Jim Brettel writes: "That Jesus Christ died twice while hanging on His cruel cross of crucifixion is an idea foreign to most Christians, and yet, the fact that He died twice while hanging on the cross is most crucial to a proper understanding of the penalty paid for the sins of the human race.

To adequately understand the two deaths of Christ on the cross, a common ground of understanding the usage of the word “death” is imperative.

Basically, the word “death” implies separation...How can we deny that a “separation” occurred between the Father and the Son while the Son hung on the cross? This “separation” of the Father from the Son is declared by the Son in the following statement: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (KJV)

“Forsaken” implies “separation.” The mechanics of this “separation” is clear. An absolutely righteous God the Father was required to “separate” from His Son because His Son was “made to be sin” for us. (2 Corinthians 5:21).

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJV)

The principle is this: Absolute righteousness cannot relate to or fellowship with sin in any form, therefore, when the Son was “made to be sin” for us, an absolutely righteous Father had to “separate” from His Son."

http://www.markkwilliamson.com/two_deaths_of_christ_on_the_cross.htm
 
T

Thorwald

Member
Site Supporter
convicted1 said:
First off, Christ never "attempted" to give up His life, He did give it up. He gave His life to be a ransom for many. God has never "tried" to do anything. He did it.

Please elaborate on that last sentence and what you are trying to convey in regards to Christ's work not being finished at that time.
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Duh! Why do you think He cried out on the cross???????????????

Christ had a 'GET OUT OF JAIL free ticket' [so to speak]. No other person has this 'free ticket'. Christ could have stopped His torture at any time, by simply 'giving up His life'. Evidently, He tried this, and nothing happened. Christ had to be 'found worthy until the end', the same way that we also have to. Christ knew that He would suffer the fate of having His legs broken, which would have increased His pain and suffering. The two other men hanging on crosses beside Him, did not have the luxury, of 'giving up their lives'. Think about this for a moment. Christ could use his power as a form of 'assisted suicide', in order to put a stop to His suffering. The rest of mankind does not have this luxury. This was a perfect time for satan to test Christ, provided that The Father allowed him to do so. Imagine the fear/doubt/confusion that Christ must have felt, before crying out to The Father. :jesus:
 
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billwald

New Member
>Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (KJV)

First we must decide why David said it.

Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
 
T

Thorwald

Member
Site Supporter
billwald said:
>Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (KJV)

First we must decide why David said it.

Psalm 22:1
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Click to expand...

Your point being????:jesus:
 
1

12strings

Active Member
Where in the world do you get the idea that Jesus "tried" to give up his life but failed? I think you have added this idea to the text.
 
C

convicted1

Guest
Thorwald said:
Duh! Why do you think He cried out on the cross???????????????

Christ had a 'GET OUT OF JAIL free ticket' [so to speak]. No other person has this 'free ticket'. Christ could have stopped His torture at any time, by simply 'giving up His life'. Evidently, He tried this, and nothing happened. Christ had to be 'found worthy until the end', the same way that we also have to. Christ knew that He would suffer the fate of having His legs broken, which would have increased His pain and suffering. The two other men hanging on crosses beside Him, did not have the luxury, of 'giving up their lives'. Think about this for a moment. Christ could use his power as a form of 'assisted suicide', in order to put a stop to His suffering. The rest of mankind does not have this luxury. This was a perfect time for satan to test Christ, provided that The Father allowed him to do so. Imagine the fear/doubt/confusion that Christ must have felt, before crying out to The Father. :jesus:
Click to expand...

:confused: Christ could have stopped this? No He couldn't. It was the Father's will that He'd be our "scapegoat", our sacrificial Lamb, our Atonement, etc.
 
T

Thorwald

Member
Site Supporter
Jerry Shugart said:
Why did the Lord Jesus say, "It is finished" before He died physically?

Two Deaths on the Cross?

Jim Brettel writes: "That Jesus Christ died twice while hanging on His cruel cross of crucifixion is an idea foreign to most Christians, and yet, the fact that He died twice while hanging on the cross is most crucial to a proper understanding of the penalty paid for the sins of the human race.

To adequately understand the two deaths of Christ on the cross, a common ground of understanding the usage of the word “death” is imperative.

Basically, the word “death” implies separation...How can we deny that a “separation” occurred between the Father and the Son while the Son hung on the cross? This “separation” of the Father from the Son is declared by the Son in the following statement: “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (KJV)

“Forsaken” implies “separation.” The mechanics of this “separation” is clear. An absolutely righteous God the Father was required to “separate” from His Son because His Son was “made to be sin” for us. (2 Corinthians 5:21).

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJV)

The principle is this: Absolute righteousness cannot relate to or fellowship with sin in any form, therefore, when the Son was “made to be sin” for us, an absolutely righteous Father had to “separate” from His Son."

http://www.markkwilliamson.com/two_deaths_of_christ_on_the_cross.htm
Click to expand...

I understand 'where you are coming from' in your response (above), but I do not 'buy it'.

Jesus (The Word in the flesh), knew the Father's thoughts. The Father had 'commanded' that Jesus could give up His life, and take it back again. Jesus had told the disciples that He had this power. The disciples 'witnessed' Jesus saying this. This would also have been on the mind of Jesus, when He was hanging on the cross, and added to His 'confusion'. Jesus believed, that His work was finished. This was His mistake. The Father is the one who would decide when the work of Jesus was complete. It is The Father who would decide when 'redemption' was complete per His own satisfaction.

The Father had not 'commanded' that Jesus had the power to decide when His work was complete.:jesus:
 
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