My Mansion

[tinytim]

When I asked Skypair

And do you actually believe that Jesus is building us mansions right now?

In another thread, he responded...

Absolutely!! I believe what we do every day sends to Him the materials that He is using -- gold, silver, precious stones or wood, hay, and stubbble.

Think about it this way, tim -- when we appear before the Bema, our "mansion" will already be constructed. We will be seeing at the Bema the eternal picture -- all at once -- what things we sent. But to me, day by day I am making "down payments" on my mansion.

And think about this --- gold is what? The STREETS! Which is what? The way or the paths of NJ! What is gold? The wisdom and truths of God!!

skypair

I then responded a few post later...

The Bible makes it clear that he is sitting at the right hand of God being our advocate...

The only place you can glean your interpretation from is John 14...
Here it is in the KJV..
John 14:1-6
(1) Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
(2) In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
(3) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
(4) And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
(5) Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
(6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Now, we have to look at a few questions here...
What is "Father's house?"
What are "Mansions"
Where did Christ go to prepare a place for us?
Why did Christ respond to Thomas the way he did?

To see my answers go to the new thread I will start titled "My mansion" (As to not hi-jack your thread here:thumbs: )

So here are my answers...
What is the Father's House? It is God's people... Just as the "house of David" is the descendants of David... so the "House of God" is God's children...

What are Mansions? Are they actual mansions? Or does the NET have it right..."Dwelling Places"...
In

Ephesians 2:6 it says that:
And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
My place is IN Jesus.. that is where I Dwell.. It is my place in God's Kingdom...
See what Jesus said:
John 6:56
(56) He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

and...

John 15:4-7
(4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
(5) I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
(7) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Are you in Christ now, or do you have to wait until he returns?

The only way to abide/dwell in Christ is found in the next answer:

Where did Christ Go to prepare us a place?
And why did he respond to Thomas the way he did? He went to Calvary.. He secured my place in him that day... He prepared my place.
That is why when Thomas responded with "We don't know the way",
Christ answered with "I am the Way"...
It is only through Christ that we are able to come to the father...
And when we were saved, Christ placed us in him... the place he prepared for us.

Because of the word "Mansions" in the KJV, we have songs like "Mansion over the hilltop", and "Just build me a cabin in gloryland"...
and because of poor hermeneutics of the past, we have the common view that SkyPair is proclaiming... that Jesus is somewhere in Heaven on a roofing job, making sure someone's mansion doesn't leak...

But the Bible makes it clear where Jesus is...


Hebrews 12:2
(2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


And what he is doing:
1 John 2:1
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

The word 'mansions' itself is an easy one. A mansion does not have to be what we normally think.

The Fatima Mansions in Dublin were recently torn down for redevelopment. They were far from 'mansions' more like slum apartments. A mansion, at least in this part of the English speaking world, can mean a dwelling place.

Don't have a clue about the Greek word

 

[Allan]

When I asked Skypair

In another thread, he responded...



I then responded a few post later...



So here are my answers...
What is the Father's House? It is God's people... Just as the "house of David" is the descendants of David... so the "House of God" is God's children...

What are Mansions? Are they actual mansions? Or does the NET have it right..."Dwelling Places"...
In

Ephesians 2:6 it says that:
And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
My place is IN Jesus.. that is where I Dwell.. It is my place in God's Kingdom...
See what Jesus said:
John 6:56
(56) He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

and...

John 15:4-7
(4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
(5) I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
(7) If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Are you in Christ now, or do you have to wait until he returns?

The only way to abide/dwell in Christ is found in the next answer:

Where did Christ Go to prepare us a place?
And why did he respond to Thomas the way he did? He went to Calvary.. He secured my place in him that day... He prepared my place.
That is why when Thomas responded with "We don't know the way",
Christ answered with "I am the Way"...
It is only through Christ that we are able to come to the father...
And when we were saved, Christ placed us in him... the place he prepared for us.

Because of the word "Mansions" in the KJV, we have songs like "Mansion over the hilltop", and "Just build me a cabin in gloryland"...
and because of poor hermeneutics of the past, we have the common view that SkyPair is proclaiming... that Jesus is somewhere in Heaven on a roofing job, making sure someone's mansion doesn't leak...

But the Bible makes it clear where Jesus is...


Hebrews 12:2
(2) Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.


And what he is doing:
1 John 2:1
(1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Jesus went to 'prepare' a place for us, not build one - I agree with you Tiny.

His preparing was His death which is the propitiation for our sins. His father house ALREADY has many 'rooms' (mansions - large rooms) which simply means God has enough space for all, but we could not enter without Him making the way ready through His death and resurrection.

He does not say that while He is away He is building and that we are waiting for Him to get done and then return. He is done and awaiting the Fathers declaration to go and get His children.

So yes TinyTim, I agree with you.

 

[tinytim]

From websters 1828 dictionary...
Mansion
MAN'SION, n. [L. mansio, from maneo, to dwell.]
1. Any place of residence; a house; a habitation.
Thy mansion wants thee, Adam, rise.
In my Father's house are many mansions. John 14.
2. The house of the lord of a manor.
3. Residence; above.
These poets near our princes sleep,
And in one grave their mansions keep.
MAN'SION, v.i. To dwell; to reside.

So in 1611, when the KJV was penned, the word "mansion" meant a dwelling place...

It seems everyday, I see more and more false interpretations based on words from the KJV that no longer means what they meant when the KJV was penned...

This illustrates the need to either use other versions... or to make sure you know what the words in the KJV meant when they were penned...

If you are KJVO... Please, Please, use a 1828 websters dictionary to get your meanings...

(NOTE>.. this is not to be turned into a versions debate... everyone needs to just make sure we know what our favorite version actually says.. .not what we think it should say)

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Whenever I hear the song about "Mansion of the hilltop" I want to show everyone the old Fatima Mansions

And here are the new Fatima Mansions - still not what is normally thought of:

 

[Allan]

From websters 1828 dictionary...
Mansion
MAN'SION, n. [L. mansio, from maneo, to dwell.]
1. Any place of residence; a house; a habitation.
Thy mansion wants thee, Adam, rise.
In my Father's house are many mansions. John 14.
2. The house of the lord of a manor.
3. Residence; above.
These poets near our princes sleep,
And in one grave their mansions keep.
MAN'SION, v.i. To dwell; to reside.

So in 1611, when the KJV was penned, the word "mansion" meant a dwelling place...

It seems everyday, I see more and more false interpretations based on words from the KJV that no longer means what they meant when the KJV was penned...

This illustrates the need to either use other versions... or to make sure you know what the words in the KJV meant when they were penned...

If you are KJVO... Please, Please, use a 1828 websters dictionary to get your meanings...

(NOTE>.. this is not to be turned into a versions debate... everyone needs to just make sure we know what our favorite version actually says.. .not what we think it should say)

To true Tim..

I want to elaborate on something though. A 'dwelling place' does not necessarily mean a 'house' but it also refers to a room. If we allow the passage to tell us what it means we must conclude that it is not a house at all that is being spoken of, but a room.

'In my Fathers house' are many mansions. This is not speaking of houses being inside His house. But rooms inside His House. Smaller dwelling inside His Dwelling.

This is not to you Tim but others who have missed this simple understanding of context. We could not be with the Father where He is unless Christ 'prepare' or make it ready for us which is done through His death and resurrection. However, the dwellings are a reference, if not a literal truth, to both the position (family) and permenance (it has already been made ready for someone specific) of their habitition within the Fathers (head of the family) dwelling.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I'd rather live in the ghetto of heaven than a palace in hell. :laugh:

Whatever the Lord is pleased to give to me in His Kingdom will be fine. If I have a choice, I'll take a fluffy cloud and a guitar so I can sing praise forever.

RB

 

[4His_glory]

Good points in the OP Tim.

The thing that gets me is how Christians focus on the streets of gold, pearly gates, etc. as if these things are reward of heaven. But what makes heaven a place of great reward is that Christ is there.
The glory of heaven is the glory of Christ.
The joy of heaven is the joy of Christ.

Thats the point Jesus was making in John 14.

You can have mansions and streets of gold and whatever, but if Christ is not there, if God is not there, then I do not want to go to heaven. I want to be where Christ is.

"Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. " Psalm 73:25

 

[tinytim]

This might take this thread in a diff. direction, but that's ok..

We all hear at funerals things like, "Well, at least she is with her husband"
"I bet he is up there fishin with Grandpa", or, "If you want to see your loved ones again, make sure you are ready to go."

That last one is one of my pet peaves....
"If you want to see your loved ones again, make sure you are ready to go."

Does a person get saved to see their mother again?
Or because they want to accept Jesus as Savior?

If the only reason you want to go to Heaven is to be with the loved ones that passed on... you are selfish! It is all about your wants...

I want my family to go to Heaven.. because I want them to miss Hell, and have the glory of worshipping our creator for eternity.

"Will the Circle be unbroken" I hope not... but I am not a Christian because I loved my Grandma, and want to see her again... I am a Christian because I love Jesus, and am sorry I nailed him to the cross...


I think our western idea (especially the American idea) of what Heaven is going to be like, is really going to be off the mark...

"I want to stroll over Heaven with you" is misleading...

We will be worshipping God 24/7 (for lack of a better term to denote time), Not walking over Heaven with our spouses..

We will not be fishin in the river of life either!

God didn't create us for our pleasure.. but for his!

We can't imagine how great Heaven will be... but when the roll is called up yonder I'll be there. (another bad song... no roll is going to be called... when we die, we either go to Heaven or Hell.... God is not going to call a roll to see who is absent)

My choir really gets a kick out of my Bible studies during choir practice...
(I am also the choir director)
We will sing a song, then I will ask for scripture to back up the theology in the song.... they are slowly learning that the American Campmeeting Hymns like the ones I mentioned along with others like, Just a little talk with Jesus.. .is filled with Bad theology, and some are just down right blasphemous... They realize that just because grandma used to sing, Precious memories... doesn't make it a worship song...

 

[LeBuick]

So here are my answers...
What is the Father's House? It is God's people... Just as the "house of David" is the descendants of David... so the "House of God" is God's children...

What are Mansions? Are they actual mansions? Or does the NET have it right..."Dwelling Places"...

Are you in Christ now, or do you have to wait until he returns?

The only way to abide/dwell in Christ is found in the next answer:
[/SIZE]
Where did Christ Go to prepare us a place?
And why did he respond to Thomas the way he did? He went to Calvary.. He secured my place in him that day... He prepared my place.
That is why when Thomas responded with "We don't know the way",
Christ answered with "I am the Way"...
It is only through Christ that we are able to come to the father...
And when we were saved, Christ placed us in him... the place he prepared for us.

Because of the word "Mansions" in the KJV, we have songs like "Mansion over the hilltop", and "Just build me a cabin in gloryland"...
and because of poor hermeneutics of the past, we have the common view that SkyPair is proclaiming... that Jesus is somewhere in Heaven on a roofing job, making sure someone's mansion doesn't leak...

But the Bible makes it clear where Jesus is...

I can't argue with your answers though my view is very different.

I believe this passage is spiritual in nature yet Jesus uses earthly physicals to make his point. Paul says to be absent from he body etc.... He is speaking of our spirit or that which is really us since we know everything flesh is corrupted/corruptible.

I think this verse clarifies and is key to understanding that passage in John...

2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Our house or earthly tabernacle is our flesh. House being a metaphor for that which we (the spirit) occupies. Jesus is saying where his father dwells (in my fathers house) are many dwelling places that we could not fathom in comparison to where we live today [(are many mansions) think angels for many]. I'm going there soon to prepare a place for you (I will soon make this place accessible to you) and where I go, there you may be also (that someday you can join me where my father and I dwell). I will come again to receive you into myself (I believe this to be referring to the rapture or the second coming of Christ. No matter which view you have, he is saying he won't take a chance on us getting lost along the way. He will come and get us and take us to this place).

 

[LeBuick]

We all hear at funerals things like, "Well, at least she is with her husband"
"I bet he is up there fishin with Grandpa", or, "If you want to see your loved ones again, make sure you are ready to go.".

I don't normally disclose my personal views on this subject because I don't want to destroy anyone's faith. But in my view Grandpa won't be Grandpa even if you do happen to meet him in the kingdom.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

I am pretty sure Grandpa's new name won't be Grandpa...

Because I believe we'll be living in a new home or IOW our soul will be occupying a different heavenly tabernacle which is made with love, forgiveness, faith etc... (that is the timber I believe we send up for our new home on high) I don't know how we will recognize Grandpa as Grandpa. I'm thinking we won't recognize each other as we do today and like you said, will be so consumed with praising God that we won't be too concerned about it. Secondly I don't believe we will recognize each other because that which we use for recognizing each other (the flesh) is the part that will dissolve.

These are my personal views and not meant as a true fact of theology...

 

[Marcia]

Does this have something to do with how a bridegroom "prepared" a place for his bride? I think I heard that once somewhere.

In Jesus' day there was the engagement which went on a long time and was as official as the wedding. During that time, the groom prepared the dwelling place. So Jesus is preparing the place for his bride, the church. This does not mean, of course, that he is actually building something but that the Jewish wedding idea is a metaphor for Jesus bringing his bride to the groom's dwelling place. So it seems more corporate than individual and more to do with the church than each person.

I just found an article that mentions it here at
http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx267.htm

Notice the various elements of the Jewish wedding festivities:

• [SIZE=+1]The Betrothal[/SIZE] --- Considered far more binding than our "engagement" today. In the presence of witnesses, the terms of the marriage are jointly accepted and God's blessing is pronounced upon the union. From that day forward the two are legally regarded as husband and wife, although they do not yet begin to live together, nor do they yet consummate the marriage through sexual union. During this present Christian dispensation the church is betrothed to Jesus Christ. When we individually accept Christ, and are added to Him, we become a part of that bride to whom He is betrothed. We then are responsible for keeping ourselves virtuous and faithful to Him alone. "For I betrothed you to one husband, that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin" [1 Cor. 11:2]. "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless" [Eph. 5:25-27]. See also: Hosea 2:19-20.
• [SIZE=+1]The Interval[/SIZE] --- Following the courtship process and the betrothal, and as a part of the betrothal itself, a dowry is paid by the groom. Christ purchased His bride (paid the dowry) at tremendous cost. The price was the shedding of His blood upon the cross [Acts 20:28; 1 Cor. 6:20; Rev. 5:9]. Thus, in a very significant way, a vital part of our Lord's preparation for the claiming of His bride, and taking her to live forever with Him, was indeed that old rugged cross! During this interval the groom would also prepare his house, adding rooms if necessary, to accommodate his new bride. In the meantime, the bride makes herself ready for the coming of the groom, and she keeps herself pure for him. We are the betrothed of Christ, and we are currently awaiting His return for us. While we wait, and while He gets the "mansion" ready for us, we keep ourselves pure for Him. I believe this to be the symbolism Jesus employed when He used the words He did to address the disciples that evening.
• [SIZE=+1]The Procession[/SIZE] --- At the end of the interval (and there was no standard length of time among the Jews; it could last weeks, months, or years), the wedding procession takes place. The bride is ready, the dowry has been paid, the house has been made ready, and the feast is prepared. He gathers together his friends, and they proceed to the home of the bride to claim her and take her to her new home. Among the ancient Jews this procession generally took place at night, and one was never really sure when that procession might come by where one was waiting to join it. Thus the need to be prepared --- see the Parable of the Ten Virgins [Matt. 25:1-13]. A day is coming, and we know neither the day nor hour, when the Bridegroom will return with His angels to claim His bride. See: 1 Thess. 4:16-17.
• [SIZE=+1]The Wedding Feasts[/SIZE] --- This is the final stage of the Jewish wedding process. It should also be noted that this event is not just a single feast, but actually "feasts" (plural). It is literally a series of feasts lasting for days and even weeks [see: Matt. 22:1-14]. At some point in the future, and we pray it will not be long, our Lord will come again to claim His bride, and He will take her to His home (which is also His Father's home), and the wedding celebration will last forever [Rev. 19:7-9]!

 

[menageriekeeper]

I'm thinking we won't recognize each other as we do today

I don't know about that LeBuick. The passage from II Sam 12:23, where David says "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me", certainly implies to me that we will recognize our loved ones.

I do believe though that our relationships to one another will certainly be different based on Christ's reply that "there will be no marrying or giving in marriage in heaven" when questioned about who's wife the woman married to seven brothers would be in the afterlife. That however is different from simple recognition of a previous relationship or person.

 

[LeBuick]

I don't know about that LeBuick. The passage from II Sam 12:23, where David says "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me", certainly implies to me that we will recognize our loved ones. .

I agree, David does seem to imply he will see the child again.

 

[canadyjd]

When Jesus says "My Father's House...", He is referring to the Temple. He had referred to the Temple as "My Father's House" earlier in John when He cleansed it with the whip.

"Dwelling places" (not mansions) refer to small rooms in the Temple where the priests would stay when they performed their duties once a year (or so) for a week or so. This is seen in Luke with John the Baptist's father.

"I am going to prepare a place for you..." Jesus is referring to going to the cross to die for them. It is clear in context that He is referring to His coming death. He is returning to the Father, by way of the cross.

Jesus is saying that by His death on the cross, He is preparing a place for those who believe in Him to become priests of God, living in His presence and worshipping Him, both in this life and the next.

That is a lot better than some stupid house.

peace to youraying:

 

[blackbird]

TinyTim has "hung up" one of the best threads I have read on this forum in a long time

Thanks, TT!!

As for recognizing each other in Heaven------recognizing my dad and mom---my aunts, uncles and others who I have known on Earth who have now made departure------I believe that in Heaven--we will retain our same personalities(although made flawless through the work of the Lord Jesus)------I will remain me throughout all eternity----as far as recognizing my saved loved ones once I have arrived--------sure-----I believe I will-----they won't be some new "stranger" to me that I will need to introduce myself to

I told my momma before she passed away-------"Momma---lets meet each other by the river over on the other side!!!"-----to which she responded----"Sure, Son!! I'll be looking for you there!!"

But as far as recognizing each other---------on the Mount of Transfiguration------the Apostles all recognized the two charactors talking with the Lord Jesus as whom???? Moses & Elijah----Moses and Elijah were recognizable as themselves----I can just about imagine Peter, James, and John looking in amazement----"Holy Smoke!!! Its Moses & Elijah!!"-------they didn't have to play the guessin' game-----"Alright, boys!!! Three guesses as to who we are!!!"

On Resurrection day------when my Spirit reunites with the dust of my body left behind----------I will be able to stand before a mirror and recogize me as I know me right now---------although standing before a mirror then I will behold me in a perfect way through the mind of the Lord Jesus Christ

 

[John of Japan]

TinyTim has "hung up" one of the best threads I have read on this forum in a long time

Thanks, TT!!

As for recognizing each other in Heaven------recognizing my dad and mom---my aunts, uncles and others who I have known on Earth who have now made departure------I believe that in Heaven--we will retain our same personalities(although made flawless through the work of the Lord Jesus)------I will remain me throughout all eternity----as far as recognizing my saved loved ones once I have arrived--------sure-----I believe I will-----they won't be some new "stranger" to me that I will need to introduce myself to

I told my momma before she passed away-------"Momma---lets meet each other by the river over on the other side!!!"-----to which she responded----"Sure, Son!! I'll be looking for you there!!"

But as far as recognizing each other---------on the Mount of Transfiguration------the Apostles all recognized the two charactors talking with the Lord Jesus as whom???? Moses & Elijah----Moses and Elijah were recognizable as themselves----I can just about imagine Peter, James, and John looking in amazement----"Holy Smoke!!! Its Moses & Elijah!!"-------they didn't have to play the guessin' game-----"Alright, boys!!! Three guesses as to who we are!!!"

On Resurrection day------when my Spirit reunites with the dust of my body left behind----------I will be able to stand before a mirror and recogize me as I know me right now---------although standing before a mirror then I will behold me in a perfect way through the mind of the Lord Jesus Christ

Excellent post! This is what I believe, and though you haven't quoted Scripture, your views are based on it. Three thumbs up! :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

[John of Japan]

Folks, pay attention to Roger (C4K) and a couple of others. The "mansions" are a linguistic matter. In both 1611 and now, British English used the word "mansion" to mean "dwelling place." However, American English changed the meaning of the word to a large, fancy house. In Japanese, the transliteration of "mansion" is manshon, which means a fancy apartment as opposed to a cheap one.

As for Matt. 14:2-3, the word for "prepare" is also used in Mark 14:12 and Matt. 26:17 and some other verses for preparing the Passover. It's used in the NT for preparing a meal, a way, etc. So the word is usually a practical word, though sometimes symbolic. In this case I like to think it is practical, Jesus literally preparing our living quarters in Heaven. Yes, He is sitting at the Father's right hand, but I think it is a mistake to glue our Savior to His seat. I think He can stand up, walk around and get a little preparing done for us too, once in awhile! Being God, He is omnipresent, you know!

Concerning our life in Heaven, since Jesus delights in our fellowship down here, even if only two or three are gathered in His name, I believe He will also delight to see us love each other and have sweet fellowship with each other in Heaven. I long to see my loved ones in Heaven: Dad, Granddad and the others. If I loved them here on earth, and love them though they are in Heaven, how could that God-given love and desire to be with them and talk with them and do things with them stop just when I have reached Heaven where they are now?

My Granddad, who wrote one of the best-selling books ever on Heaven (Bible Facts About Heaven at: http://www.swordbooks.com/ricejohnr.aspx), when asked what Heaven would be like, used to say, "God will give you whatever it takes to make you happy in Heaven!" And of course when we get there, I'm sure we'll be happy just fellowshipping with our loved ones and praising Jesus! :type: