My minimum wage rant.

[Salty]

... What about no minimum wage, but wage ceiling on the corporation (including bonuses - I know that's been used as a cop out before) that's based on the lowest paid member. Something like the highest paid person can only make 10x what the lowest person does?

Negative
Capitalism is based on productivity. If as an owner, I am limited as to how much I can make, than what is the incentive?

The problem is on the lower end there is often no desire for additional productivity.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Negative
Capitalism is based on productivity. If as an owner, I am limited as to how much I can make, than what is the incentive?
.

That's actually kind of the point, Salty. If I can only make, say 400k/yr because my lowest employee is making 40k, and i want to give myself a raise, I have to raise the floor to raise the ceiling. So, if I want to make 500k, I have to raise the lowest to 50k.



It's just a thought, and I'm not sure I agree with it myself. But on the surface it seems better than raising minimum wage.

 

[Salty]

If I can only make, say 400k/yr because my lowest employee is making 40k, and i want to give myself a raise, I have to raise the floor to raise the ceiling. So, if I want to make 500k, I have to raise the lowest to 50k. .

I wouldn't mind raising his pay to 50 grand - if he is worth it - but lets suppose - he will not work overtime or on weekends.
Therefore I have to- if I want to increase profits - but I cant pay myself more because of that limit.

 

[matt wade]

My buddy had a thought. What about no minimum wage, but wage ceiling on the corporation (including bonuses - I know that's been used as a cop out before) that's based on the lowest paid member. Something like the highest paid person can only make 10x what the lowest person does?

The idea's not fully fleshed out, but it's an interesting thought. What says the board?

It's a ridiculous thought that goes against everything this country stands for.

 

[InTheLight]

My buddy had a thought. What about no minimum wage, but wage ceiling on the corporation (including bonuses - I know that's been used as a cop out before) that's based on the lowest paid member. Something like the highest paid person can only make 10x what the lowest person does?



The idea's not fully fleshed out, but it's an interesting thought. What says the board?

Nobody would want to be an entrepreneur if there was a ceiling on earnings. Therefore there would not be many new companies being started. Idea would never fly.

 

[righteousdude2]

So your solution is that tax dollars should just be handed out to anyone making a "low wage".

And what, pray tell, are we doing now? Welfare, unemployment, telephones, WIC, food stamps, utility supplements. Those are all tax dollars going to people, and getting nothing back for it. At least, I'm putting people to work and giving them supplements to entice them into staying on the job long enough to get experience and additional education to move further up the ladder in the class system we currently have.

You seem to be happy leaving people dangling in that government safety net, with freebies everywhere, and nothing productive coming out of it.

Give me, a fish and I'll want a another tomorrow .... teach me to fish, and I'll be able to catch and eat them for the days ahead! Maybe I'll even build a boat to get out to the parts of the lake and ocean where more fish live! Maybe then I'll hire some men and women to work with me catching fish, or even teach others.

See how that works. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Revmitchell]

That's actually kind of the point, Salty. If I can only make, say 400k/yr because my lowest employee is making 40k, and i want to give myself a raise, I have to raise the floor to raise the ceiling. So, if I want to make 500k, I have to raise the lowest to 50k.



It's just a thought, and I'm not sure I agree with it myself. But on the surface it seems better than raising minimum wage.

Why not just do neither and let it go at that.

 

[The American Dream]

What's absolutely amazing to me is that I am living off of less than the proposed minimum wage hike. And I have a house payment and a car payment, three kids, a wife, and am working out of debt.

Well Congrats, I was in a war not declared by Congress before you were born, and the pay was poverty level for anyone E-4 and below. First of all, there is no real way to measure your pay, as you are on a base wage plus family allowance, plus whatever combat/overseas/family separation allowance they give now days.

Yet, I notice two things about your financial situation based on your statement. With pay much better than mine at the time, you say you are working out of debt and have a car payment. I can understand the house payment, but fail to understand why anyone has lingering debt or a car payment. I never had either. I got out of the military, and went on to work on a high school education. I paid off my house 20 years early and put two kids through college with not one penny of student loans. Why, because I did not go into debt and did not buy cars I could not afford to pay for.

I am not a fan of the minimum wage, but the law was created by Democrats and Republicans (no difference) in response to corporations not paying a wage that one could not even buy popcorn for the movies. It all stems from greed. If those who run businesses had tried to be fair to their workers, such laws would have never been enacted.

I know President Nixon increased military pay by quite a bit. I am going to guess that the pay has been raised many times since then. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, one could collect food stamps because of the low pay. And the military pay system is exactly contrary to the concept of a free market setting. Say you have two E-5s in the say Air Force. I will pick out one I was not in. Why should an E-5 electronics tech in the Air Force get paid the same as a head of a custodial crew of the barracks? One takes talent, the other could be done by a pet monkey.

Before you criticize the minimum wage, lets see how you do on the outside. You might be grateful for it one day.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Well Congrats, I was in a war not declared by Congress before you were born, and the pay was poverty level for anyone E-4 and below. First of all, there is no real way to measure your pay, as you are on a base wage plus family allowance, plus whatever combat/overseas/family separation allowance they give now days.





Yet, I notice two things about your financial situation based on your statement. With pay much better than mine at the time, you say you are working out of debt and have a car payment. I can understand the house payment, but fail to understand why anyone has lingering debt or a car payment. I never had either. I got out of the military, and went on to work on a high school education. I paid off my house 20 years early and put two kids through college with not one penny of student loans. Why, because I did not go into debt and did not buy cars I could not afford to pay for.





I am not a fan of the minimum wage, but the law was created by Democrats and Republicans (no difference) in response to corporations not paying a wage that one could not even buy popcorn for the movies. It all stems from greed. If those who run businesses had tried to be fair to their workers, such laws would have never been enacted.
I know President Nixon increased military pay by quite a bit. I am going to guess that the pay has been raised many times since then. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, one could collect food stamps because of the low pay. And the military pay system is exactly contrary to the concept of a free market setting. Say you have two E-5s in the say Air Force. I will pick out one I was not in. Why should an E-5 electronics tech in the Air Force get paid the same as a head of a custodial crew of the barracks? One takes talent, the other could be done by a pet monkey.
Before you criticize the minimum wage, lets see how you do on the outside. You might be grateful for it one day.

So, to turn your whole rant on it's ear, I *am* on the outside. I'm full on civilian. And I'm making $12.99/hr.

 

[The American Dream]

So, to turn your whole rant on it's ear, and make it meaningless, I *am* on the outside. I'm full on civilian. And I'm making $12.99/hr. So, pretty much that whole post is meaningless.

The point is, you are much better off than we were. You should have no complaints. No, I made $30+ an hour when I retired based on a free market, not a pay scale set by evil group of politicians. The post was not meaningless. Yours was because you never had to experience low pay. Give me a break. Get out your next EAOS and lets see how you fare. You have not don't well where you are. Don't tell others about how to survive in civilian life when you do not have a clue. Oh and by the way, if you have any more criticism of my career, I will be glad to put up my medals right next yours after four years of service.

 

[Sapper Woody]

The point is, you are much better off than we were.

Again, I'm a civilian now. So, your point is moot.

You should have no complaints.

I did the opposite of complaining. I simply stated that raising the federal minimum wage to the proposed level of $15/hr is ridiculous, as I am currently doing pretty good on less than that.

No, I made $30+ an hour when I retired based on a free market, not a pay scale set by evil group of politicians.

No clue what you're getting at here.

The post was not meaningless. Yours was because you never had to experience low pay.

Wow. Talk about assumptions. I didn't join the military until I was 24, had a wife and a child on the way. Before I joined, I was a youth pastor making $150/wk plus rent. So, think about what you're going to say before making assumptions.

Give me a break. Get out your next EAOS and lets see how you fare.

So, obviously you totally missed the part where I said

I *am* on the outside. I'm full on civilian.

I'm out now, working a civilian job. Again, making less than the proposed minimum wage. AND MAKING IT FINE. That's my whole point. I am doing fine on less than some people want to force businesses to pay.

You have not don't well where you are.

Not even going to try and decipher that.

Don't tell others about how to survive in civilian life when you do not have a clue.

Again, I'm a civilian now.

Oh and by the way, if you have any more criticism of my career, I will be glad to put up my medals right next your yours after four years of service.

Where in the world did I criticize your career? In what alternate universe did you get that from? I never even brought up your career. Or your medals.

Congratulations. you did 4 years and got some medals. I did 7, and also got some medals. But guess what? Nobody cares about either of our medals, except the sentimental value they hold to us. I don't give one iota if you have more, less, or the exact same amount as me. It makes no difference to me at all.

Lastly, in case you missed it, as you clearly missed my entire last post: I am a civilian now.

 

[Revmitchell]

The point is, you are much better off than we were. You should have no complaints.

Where did he complain?

 

[The American Dream]

Again, I'm a civilian now. So, your point is moot.

I did the opposite of complaining. I simply stated that raising the federal minimum wage to the proposed level of $15/hr is ridiculous, as I am currently doing pretty good on less than that.

No clue what you're getting at here.

Wow. Talk about assumptions. I didn't join the military until I was 24, had a wife and a child on the way. Before I joined, I was a youth pastor making $150/wk plus rent. So, think about what you're going to say before making assumptions.

So, obviously you totally missed the part where I said I'm out now, working a civilian job. Again, making less than the proposed minimum wage. AND MAKING IT FINE. That's my whole point. I am doing fine on less than some people want to force businesses to pay.

Not even going to try and decipher that.

Again, I'm a civilian now.


Where in the world did I criticize your career? In what alternate universe did you get that from? I never even brought up your career. Or your medals.

Congratulations. you did 4 years and got some medals. I did 7, and also got some medals. But guess what? Nobody cares about either of our medals, except the sentimental value they hold to us. I don't give one iota if you have more, less, or the exact same amount as me. It makes no difference to me at all.

Lastly, in case you missed it, as you clearly missed my entire last post: I am a civilian now.

If you are a civilian, then make it clear. You keep your military garb up, and medals to display. If you are a civilian, the represent yourself as that. Anything else is totally dishonest to us while making posts. If you are making less than minimum wage, then that is your problem for not getting the proper education.

 

[Sapper Woody]

If you are a civilian, then make it clear. You keep your military garb up, and medals to display. If you are a civilian, the represent yourself as that. Anything else is totally dishonest to us while making posts.

Really? Because my avatar has me in uniform it's dishonest? If my avatar had a palm tree, but I didn't live on the beach, is that dishonest?

If you are making less than minimum wage, then that is your problem for not getting the proper education.

I never said it was a problem. Please, go back and actually read my posts. I am happy where I am at. But, again with the blanket assumptions. You have no clue what education I have, or what qualifications/certifications I have. I am doing a job I enjoy, making a living wage. I don't know where you keep coming up with this stuff.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you are a civilian, then make it clear. You keep your military garb up, and medals to display. If you are a civilian, the represent yourself as that. Anything else is totally dishonest to us while making posts. If you are making less than minimum wage, then that is your problem for not getting the proper education.

Brother you have been posting on this board off and on for years. You have only recently come back. We all knew he was now a civ. We have been here to read his posts. Your assumption is not his fault.

 

[matt wade]

And what, pray tell, are we doing now? Welfare, unemployment, telephones, WIC, food stamps, utility supplements. Those are all tax dollars going to people, and getting nothing back for it. At least, I'm putting people to work and giving them supplements to entice them into staying on the job long enough to get experience and additional education to move further up the ladder in the class system we currently have.

You seem to be happy leaving people dangling in that government safety net, with freebies everywhere, and nothing productive coming out of it.

No, I think we should stop all government handouts immediately. I'm not happy with any handouts.

You are missing the repercussions of your idea. You say that we should give low income earners a government handout so bring them equal to a middle class wage. This will have the exact same detrimental effects that raising the minimum wage would. It would dilute the earning power of the middle class.

Let's say, somehow, it didn't dilute the earning power of the middle class, what you'd then see happen is people that are content to stay in their low paying jobs forever, because they aren't really low paying. They get the government handout that makes it a middle class wage.

I also am concerned that you think that we need to give back dignity to low income workers. That's classic liberal speak. That somehow the evil rich people have taken away the dignity of the poor people. Dignity is something that comes from within. It can't be taken away from or given to people.

 

[Salty]

Again, I'm a civilian now. So, your point is moot....

We are no longer civilians, we are VETERANS!:thumbsup:

 

[Salty]

Well Congrats, I was in a war not declared by Congress before you were born, and the pay was poverty level for anyone E-4 and below. First of all, there is no real way to measure your pay, as you are on a base wage plus family allowance, plus whatever combat/overseas/family separation allowance they give now days. ...

I think that was a low blow to the Sapper.

Apparently you and I are about the same age.
As a Pvt in the Army during a war approved by Congress, I had low pay by todays standards. Even being married, I was NOT living in poverty. I simply lived within my means. Yes, I did appreciate the big pay raise that Nixon gave us.
I never needed food stamps, though one year at Christmas, the Chapel gave a $10 Commissary voucher to every married E-4 and below. And that $10 bought a lot of groceries!

 

[The American Dream]

I think that was a low blow to the Sapper.

Apparently you and I are about the same age.
As a Pvt in the Army during a war approved by Congress, I had low pay by todays standards. Even being married, I was NOT living in poverty. I simply lived within my means. Yes, I did appreciate the big pay raise that Nixon gave us.
I never needed food stamps, though one year at Christmas, the Chapel gave a $10 Commissary voucher to every married E-4 and below. And that $10 bought a lot of groceries!

Nope I never took them, but many of my buddies did. Yes the raise Nixon gave us helped a lot.

 

[The American Dream]

Brother you have been posting on this board off and on for years. You have only recently come back. We all knew he was now a civ. We have been here to read his posts. Your assumption is not his fault.

That is my error and my apologies to Sapper. I have not been here in quite a while.