My Position on the Fourth Commandment

GE:
The function of the 7th day sabbath was to point to that eternal rest in Christ. Beginning with faith in Christ, we already HAVE, that eternal rest, THUS, Hebrews 4:8-10, “If Jesus had given them rest, God after it won’t ever again speak of another day of salvation— THEREFORE THEN keeping of the Sabbath Day REMAINS VALID for the People of God HE HAVING entered into his own Rest as God in his own” …

… but TCGreek has it, quote, “… making the 7th day sabbath obsolete”.

No further comment, except that it is so lazy and nauseously indulgent to flatter and curry for favour if you can't present anything of spiritual substance.

 

An alternative of course is to [edit]

 

GE:

MY!!!

"Luke's version"???

Or Dr Walter's 'version'!!!

Beautiful! I love the standard of Bible study going on on Baptist Board on this thread today! Outstanding, but NOT to be recommended for above 16 years of age adults! Not especially if you are aspiring to a doctorate or a bachelor's or to be a rugby commentator in Afrikaans in South Africa. The older men aspiring the young … will cause them to break their necks in the first minute of game.

 

Most conspicuous characteristic of Dr Walter's posts, are,

... one, the conspicuous ABSENCE of real (quoting of) SCRIPTURE; and

... two, the conspicuous PREDOMINANCE of direct and real, Scripture-annulling contradictory statements.

Nice man, really NICE! We need scholars like you to further destroy any trust some people might have retained in them or in their Sunday-worship-christianity.

What people will sacrifice for Christ is unbelievable.

 

The internet has given us this luxury of expression.

 

GE:

Apologies for the mistake above, "... … and

… “a Monday emerging from the Tomb” “SABBATH’S” ‘night’, and, ‘day’ “FROM THE DEAD”, “third day according to the Scriptures”, resurrection.

So, using the premise we find in Scripture that Jesus' body had to be placed ..."

Please rectify to :

"... … and

… “emerging from the Tomb” and the dead, “SABBATH’S” : ‘night’, and, ‘day’, “third day according to the Scriptures”, resurrection.

So, using the premise we find in Scripture that Jesus' body had to be placed ..."

Thank you

GE

 

Re:
Ituttut,
“Passover is death to some, and life to others. It happened, as scripture can prove, just as Wednesday and Thursday were blending together.
Leviticus 23:6-7, ”And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.”
Leviticus above, 23:5-7 tells us when Passover blood is applied. I believe Jesus' body had to be in the Tomb just at the close of Nisan 14, and the beginning of Nisan 15 in Israel's time keeping. But Jesus' blood has to be available before Passover comes. So when did Jesus die? We know it was on Nisan 14 (preparation day) and this particular year it was a Wednesday, and He died at 3pm. The blood was now available to be applied as Wednesday turns into Thursday.
3pm Wednesday to 3pm Thursday is 24 hours. 3pm Thursday to 3pm Friday is 24 hours. 3pm Friday to 3pm Saturday (the regular Sabbath) is 24 hours. It is just as He says, i.e. three days, and three nights will be accomplished according to HIS TIME.
On His death we know he was in Paradise, and it was at 3pm He died and was in the Heart of the earth. That means his Spirit and Soul returned to His body at 3pm on that Saturday. So He arose from the heart of the earth on the third day.
But we must account for the Passover time, and Jesus arising in His Body, and coming forth from the Tomb.”

GE:

I read things I agree on, like, “…his Spirit and Soul returned to His body at 3pm on that Saturday. So He arose from the heart of the earth on the third day.” But I admit, I don’t see or understand, how you got there.
I also, see things I disagree with – just about everything else of what you say. But I can understand why I don’t understand anything of it— it’s because I cannot find anything of it in the Scriptures, Ituttut, sorry mate.

The Scriptures that you quote, you mix up so much, it’s difficult to follow your logic. But I do know your logic if it could be called that; and it’s all wrong of course.

Why is it wrong?
Here’s a few things why it’s wrong…

… “scripture can prove, just as Wednesday and Thursday were blending together.”

Which “Scripture”?
“Leviticus 23:6-7 … 23:5-7 ”?
No! These Scriptures “prove” nothing of the kind!

So here’s the actual ‘proof’ of Ituttut’s OWN,
“We know … this particular year it was a Wednesday”
“We know” is not “scripture” if it’s not “scripture”, but it’s “We” who THINK “We know”. Meantime it’s “We” who ASSUME and then take our assumption for a priori conditional knowledge.
It does not work that way.

So, “We”, “prove”, “just as Wednesday and Thursday were blending together”, “Passover … happened”, and what “happened”, was, “death to some, and life to others”.

But Ituttut, The Scriptures prove, “death to some, and life to others”, “happened”, “in the night … by night”, “this night”, “And it HAPPENED, that at MIDNIGHT the LORD smote all the firstborn”. Exodus 12:30,31,12,29.

Do you believe a midnight to midnight day-cycle, Ituttut?
Do you say Israel killed the passover lamb after sunset before midnight, and ate it after midnight?
If you do, then the firstborn of the Israelites would also have been killed. The blood on the doorposts had to be ON the door posts before sunset because everyone had to be inside his house all night until midnight when Israel had to move out!

So even if you mean the passover was killed literally only “just as Wednesday and Thursday …” or whichever two days “… were blending together” at sunset, it still would be IMPOSSIBLE to have “happened” because the blood had to be applied to the door posts and lintel before night and before the Israelites were to be indoors and were to stay indoors and were “not (to) go out of his house until morning” Exodus 12:22 and the turn of day at midnight. The meal and the day of the meal, BEGAN, here, already, “In the evening ye shall eat” Exodus 12:18.

WHAT “happened” is most important to know exactly, so that one should not be confused about WHEN it happened.

Passover – sacrifice – was KILLED on, the fourteenth;

Passover – meal – was EATEN, on, the fifteenth.

These two passover events “happened” about six hours apart; three hours after sacrifice before sunset plus three hours after sunset before meal.

The demarcation between the passover day of sacrifice and the passover day of feast was clear and central; as the demarcation between the passover day of feast and passover “bone-” or “middle-day-of-that-which-remained”, was clear and central, RIGHT ON SUNSET! And the same remains for the passover “feast day of great sabbath” and “the day that you waved the sheaf”— the demarcation between them was clear and central, RIGHT ON SUNSET!

Again, Ituttut, “… it was on Nisan 14 (preparation day …” : “OF THE PASSOVER” John 19:14; “… and He died at 3pm. The blood was now available to be applied …” during the remainder of sacrifice-day the fourteenth, and had to be finished applied, BEFORE, “as” the sacrifice-day “… turns into …” the feast-day.

Then, how do you get that “Leviticus 23:5-7 tells us when Passover blood is applied”? Blood was applied ONCE, at the actual exodus; never again, and that’s why Leviticus says NOTHING about the blood being applied to doorposts.

Ituttut, it’s not possible what you say, “I believe Jesus' body had to be in the Tomb just at the close of Nisan 14, and the beginning of Nisan 15 in Israel's time keeping.” It just doesn’t make any sense, and leaves us in total darkness as to what “Israel's time keeping” was.

All this confusion JUST BECAUSE YOU PRESUPPOSE FOR FACT, THE FALLACY, “Jesus' body had to be in the Tomb just at the close of Nisan 14” which is RIGHT ON SUNSET.

No! I repeat what I have said above, “He shall not hang ALL NIGHT, but before daylight be taken down and the SAME day, buried.” Deuteronomy 21:23 et al.
And that IS PROVEN BY AND IN THE CASE of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God Our Passover forevermore.
He died the ninth hour (3 p.m.) and was FINISHED buried, 3 p.m., “mid-afternoon” Luke 23:54.
The day He was crucified and died on, began with “evening” after sunset; and
the day He was buried on, began with “evening” after sunset.
Never a divergence.

Re:
Ituttut,
“But Jesus' blood has to be available before Passover comes. So when did Jesus die?”

A very, very deep question!

Yes, Jesus' blood had to be available before Passover came. “So when did Jesus die?” He died dying death and suffered the death of death “In the night in which He was betrayed and took bread”!

Jesus ALIVE AND LIVING, DESIRING AND OBEDIENTLY, DIED DEATH FOR OUR SINS. It was his suffering that atones for our transgressions and that makes us whole. It was the beginning of the Beginning of the creation of God. Where it seemed to be its end. Where Paradise was hell. Where the Kingdom of the Father was the kingdom of darkness. Where the hour and day of shame and being cast out into the pit, were the hour and “Day of the Lord” Triumphator. “For the LORD is a MAN of war. He triumphed GLORIOUSLY!”
Jesus Christ triumphed through DEATH.
God Almighty DIED IN VICTORY.
“God had sworn with an oath … He would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on His Throne.”

And if Christ died not?
God, God forbid!, would have sworn falsely!

 

Ituttut:

"... we are to attempt to understand what Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John say about this matter. We are ourselves to study to make ourselves approved of God. We must bring together the four Gospels in our Bible, to get the complete picture. We must believe God in the Beginning."

GE:

Good point, Ituttut! “We must bring together the four Gospels in our Bible, to get the complete picture. We must believe God in the Beginning” of the Gospel of Salvation.
Can’t we trust what God is telling us in the Gospels, how can we believe whenever God is speaking to us?!

DW:

You cannot count nor can you read English! “TODAY” Luke fixes as “the first day of the week” and says it “IS THE THIRD DAY” - the day of the resurrection - NOT SATURDAY but SUNDAY! Saturday then IS the second day since the crucifixion not the day of the resurrection. Friday IS the first day since the crucifixion which demands THURSDAY not Wednesday is the day of the crucifixion.
Can't make it much clearer to anyone who has the ability to count and read! You reject plain English because you have a theory based upon presuppositions that you cannot prove.

IT:

It's not that I don't know when I'm being insulted, but hard for me to believe one of your stature, and standing on the Board as a Christian could allow such to come from your mouth.

DW:

My apologies for insulting you. However, I have no such “statue, and standing on the Board.” I am just a peon like the rest.

GE:

Speak for yourself. You are a ‘peon’ of Sunday sacredness thinking ‘boards’ and kings in queens of manipulating other’s thought processes.

DW:

It is the moderator's that have that “statue and standing on the board.”
I don't have a problem with those who hold to a Wednesday crucifixion. It is a better position than those who hold to a Friday crucifixion. However, I don't believe the scripture demands three FULL days and three FULL nights or 72 hours.

GE:

The hours are consequential of the TRUE “three days” of Prophecy and Promise – which imperatively means the eschatological wholeness and fullness of THOSE “three days”— which – “do the maths” as Ituttut has said –, will amount to 72 hours— but the 72 hours of THE “three days and three nights” and Jesus’ FULFILLING of them. Not any parts of any days added together, like both you two, TRY to do!

 

Dr Walter:

"He was in the grave on Nisan 14th the day of his crucifixion. Friday was the “high Sabbath” or first day of unleavened bread - the 15th of the month. He rested in the grave on Saturday the 16th. He arose from the grave on Sunday the 17th the day after the Sabbath when the sheaf offering was presented in the temple or “the firstfruits of the resurrection.”"

GE:

Jesus Rose from the grave and the dead “on the third day”.

You say He died and was buried on Thursday;
that gives Thursday Abib 14 the first of the “three days” of which Scripture is speaking.

That gives Friday Abib 15 would be the second of the “three days” of which Scripture is speaking.

And that gives “SABBATH’S DAY” Abib 16 would be the third of the “three days” of which Scripture is speaking.

“They finished cleansing the sanctuary on the sixteenth day of the First Month”.

You force Jesus to do over-time, locking Him in another 12 to 15 hours hellish torment, letting Him finish cleaning the sanctuary “on Sunday the 17th the day after the Sabbath”.

But "The Sabbath" was "the third day" AND the Sabbath of which the Scriptures have throughout spoken that it is “holy unto” the grand “finishing of all the works of God”.

Who’s the boss around here? Who’s the Peon around here?

 

Dr Walter:

Luke 24:21 confirms this [Dr Walter’s] counting as accurate. The Greek prepositon “apo” or “away from” demands that Luke is not including the crucifixion day in his count but is counting the days “from” that day - Friday, Saturday and including Sunday as “TODAY IS the third day.”

GE:

“… as TODAY IS the third day” … Dr Walter conveniently refraining from quoting “Luke 24:21” in full, ever so carefully omitting the words, “since these things happened” so INSTEAD of MAKING Sunday what it actually is, “the third day SINCE these things happened”, Dr Walter makes "SUNDAY" “TODAY IS the third day”, 'included' in and “the third day” _OF_, the “three days” which were the three first days of the passover and last three days of the Passover of Yahweh.

Did you really think no one would see right through this, Dr Walter?

How could you think it possible, seeing you yourself concluded, “Nisan 14th the day of his crucifixion. Friday was the “high Sabbath” or first day of unleavened bread - the 15th of the month. He rested in the grave on Saturday the 16th”? HOW ON EARTH, Dr Walter!?

Then, Yes, in fact, Jesus remained “in the grave on Saturday the 16th”, AS THE THIRD of the “three days” – ‘night’ and ‘day’ “the third day” – on which ALSO, He would and in actual fact “according to the Scriptures”, DID RISE, “When suddenly ON THE SABBATH there was a great earthquake and the angel of the Lord descending from heaven cast away the stone”.

The Scriptures! Nothing THAN the Scriptures! Nothing than the FULL Scriptures! The Scriptures untwisted; the Scriptures unadapted; the Scriptures unbent; the Scriptures straight forward!

No matter the consequences.

 

Dr Walter:

… the crucifixion day would not be the “third day since”/from (Sunday) nor the second day since/from (Saturday) or the first day since/from (Friday) but the day preceding the first day since/from which is Thursday.
He partook of the Supper on the evening of the 14th (our Wednesday evening) and was crucified on the day of the 14th (our Thursday). He rested in the grave part of the 14th before 6 pm (Our thursday evening) and stayed in the grave on the High Sabbath or the first day of unleavened bread the 15th (Friday) and continued to rest in the grave on the regular Sabbath (Saturday) while arising from the grave between 3am to 6am on Sunday, the day on the “morrow after the sabbath” when the sheaf or “the firstfruits” of the harvest was offered.
Hence, he was in the grave three days and three nights - two full 48 hour days and one partial day and one partial evening but a total of three different days and three different nights.

GE:

So THAT’S how you get to “on Sunday”!!

No, I realized it all the time, don’t worry.
I told you so several times before. Scheming, that’s how.

You actually GET to the last day of finality – two times now one after the other – you actually GET to the last day of finality in the Resurrection! But just won’t accept. So you unreasonably for not so mysterious reason, skip the last day of finality in the Resurrection of Christ “In the Sabbath Day”, and reach too far forward to "on Sunday". Like those Chinese super batmen who like flies climb glass walls and sail overhanging rocks; but when they try to go more than one obstacle at a time, it’s all over with them. You only won’t believe it’s all over with you and your futile attempts at a "on Sunday" Resurrection, Dr Walter!

 

Ituttut:

............you refuse to entertain truth that has been shown to you.
You wrote words in your previous post to me, showing to all what I said was true. Do you now say you did not mean what you said? That does happen some time, and all we have to do is admit it, claim out of context, Linguistics Foreign, or revert to name-calling.

I proved the 72 houses in the heart of the earth, and His coming forth on the first day of the next week. You do not accept that, even though you cannot come close to proving a Thursday crucifixion.

GE:

Give Dr Walter credit where he deserves it, Ituttut. His counting with regard to Luke 24:21 is correct, just the same as Luke’s— "Today", Sunday, "IS the third day since" the day of the Crucifixion. But Crucifixion day was the first day of the three days of the prophecies. So Sunday could not be the third day of the three days of the prophecies. Doesn’t matter, Dr Walter argues correctly otherwise and is spot on that the Crucifixion was on Thursday. He only cannot reconcile the fact of the ‘Thursday Crucifixion’ with a Sunday Resurrection because the prophecies and their fulfilment by Christ, and ordinary adding up, wouldn’t allow it.

 

Ituttut:

The women that day of Nisan 18 arrived as the Sun was beginning to come up, and they saw Him not; neither did they see the guards. The women were not there when the stone was rolled away. I would say He was reviving, and praying to His Father, and then Mary sees Him. She is then able to see, and talk to Him, but not touch Him (John 20:17).

GE:

No, then He had had raised – long ago!

How is it here you argue a Sunday Resurrection, but not so long ago you advocated a Sabbath’s Resurrection?

Or what’s your difference between resurrected and ‘revived’ that He resurrected on the Sabbath but here as you say “was reviving … as the sun was beginning to come up” – on Sunday morning I suppose?

Or are you of the opinion He rose on Saturday morning?

You’re quite confusing my man!