My Problems With MV's

[Pastor Larry]

Then WHY did you agree with this statement??

Because it's correct. The KJV is out-of-date, using words and grammar and structures that are not in use today. It has had its day, and now contemporary English speaking people need a Bible in their own language.

If someone wants to slog through the KJV, I have no problem with that. As I say, I don't care what version people use.

 

[Baptist4life]

Since this seems to be a total misunderstanding on both sides, I APOLOGIZE to one and all.........you too, Pastor!:godisgood:

 

[Pastor Larry]

Thank you ...

 

[Baptist4life]

You're welcome...........really! :1_grouphug:

 

[preachinjesus]

I wonder how much of this discussion over various translations could be resolved with an honest approach and understanding of the Hebrew and Greek texts and the variants therein.

Also a thorough-going discussion of translation methodology would be good too.

One thing that I'll throw out there and stand in to take the heat is that there is no such thing as a truly "literal" translation of either the New Testament and Old Testament. We can have formal equivalencies but it is exceedingly difficult to suggest a "literal" translation of the testaments. Again just my thing.

Anyhoo, interesting convo. I use all kinds of translations in my study and speaking. Usually just the ESV or HCSB for preaching and teaching from text to text for coherency sake. I grew up in a church where the Pastor still uses the KJV, but never really used it. Not that I don't like it, I'll reference it from time to time, but it's just not good for communicating in my style.

 

[Jim1999]

I will confess, that when I was teaching and quoted scripture, I did so word-for-word. In preaching I usually paraphrase the text, but based on my King James Version.

I took Greek and Hebrew in seminary, but frankly never made much use of it in over 50 years of preaching. I never quoted either language in the pulpit.

I think sometimes there is a little psuedo-intellectualism with some of these lingual quotes in the pulpit, but that is my opinion. A truly educated man doesn't have to advertise it.....it should be demonstrated.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[preachinjesus]

I took Greek and Hebrew in seminary, but frankly never made much use of it in over 50 years of preaching. I never quoted either language in the pulpit.

I think sometimes there is a little psuedo-intellectualism with some of these lingual quotes in the pulpit, but that is my opinion. A truly educated man doesn't have to advertise it.....it should be demonstrated.

Agreed! When I am preaching and teaching I will undertake significant language work in preparation but never use technical words or refer to the Hebrew/Greek words in presentation.

I find it is stuffy and (at least for me) hedges on over-bearing intellectualism that doesn't do anything for the people involved with the teaching. I could sit there and say something like, "Well in the original language this word is an perfect active participle in the third person plural whose root is luow" but all that my people would hear is "Well blah blah blah blah." It's not that they're ignorant or don't care, they just aren't there and are really looking for application than academia.

Perhaps this is a convo for a different thread, but usually when I hear men preaching and teaching who attempt to use the original languages in their presentations they are doing so to a) puff themselves up, b) usually have some errors in their presentation and/or c) are just quoting a commentator or other teacher. (Of course there are some notable exceptions) I find that reasoning spurious and not what God expects from His children. Anyhoo, like I said maybe another thread.

 

[Rippon]

Tell that to Rippon

Wow,you've invoked my name so many times in this thread that my ears are burning.

 

[gb93433]

I think sometimes there is a little psuedo-intellectualism with some of these lingual quotes in the pulpit, but that is my opinion. A truly educated man doesn't have to advertise it.....it should be demonstrated.

Spurgeon said the same thing and I agree too. There have been a few times when people told me that they wished I would use the Greek word. I still do not know why. I think it a waste of time because most people would not understand if you told them.

 

[TCGreek]

TNIV is the way to go. :thumbs:

 

[Pastor Larry]

I took Greek and Hebrew in seminary, but frankly never made much use of it in over 50 years of preaching. I never quoted either language in the pulpit.

I use it every week in study, and only very rarely in preaching (usually when the Greek word has an English cognate that will be recognizable). I translate the passage from the original language to help understand it and then spend much time in the original language. I can't imagine a preacher who doesn't use the original languages every week to study.

 

[Rippon]

Anyhoo, interesting convo. I use all kinds of translations in my study and speaking. Usually just the ESV or HCSB for preaching and teaching from text to text for coherency sake. I grew up in a church where the Pastor still uses the KJV, but never really used it. Not that I don't like it, I'll reference it from time to time, but it's just not good for communicating in my style.

But the "style"of the ESV is not far removed from that of the KJV.The ESV is use quite different English styles.I'm surprised that you haven't noticed the superiority of the HCSB.

 

[Japheth10]

Since that was NOT a personal attack, but simply your opinion that it was, I see no need to apologize. Maybe I will as soon as you people "apologize" to me for insinuating that I'm KJVOnly!

If you're *not* KJVO,then what other English translations of God's word would you recommend?

 

[gb93433]

I use it every week in study, and only very rarely in preaching (usually when the Greek word has an English cognate that will be recognizable). I translate the passage from the original language to help understand it and then spend much time in the original language. I can't imagine a preacher who doesn't use the original languages every week to study.

Great! Wish we had more just like you who have studied well enough to teach and encourage people along the right path. I cannot imagine a preacher attending seminary and spending so much time studying the languages then waste away their skills by ignoring them rather than building upon the foundation of what they have already been taught. Personally, I never really began to understand the languages very well until a few years out of seminary and was forced to dig deeper. A lot of what I was taught began to make sense once I was out of seminary and noticed to context of the grammar and words.

Today I read a sermon by Chrysostom and he mentioned that the lack of study was a problem then. The Schuller types seem to be age old problem.

One of the by products I have noticed is that the children tend to imitate the parents. If the parents take Christ seriously so do the children. I watched my daughter go to college this year and she has been good about sharing her faith and meting other Christians along with trying to reach others. It makes my wife and feel good that she is not wavering in her faith.

Keep studying and feeding your people with the truth. God knows we need more just like you who are disciplined enough to teach the truth and live it out. Keep up the good work!!!!

 

[EdSutton]

If you're *not* KJVO,then what other English translations of God's word would you recommend?

Let me be the first to say, "Welcome to the Baptist Board!" :wavey:

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Since that was NOT a personal attack, but simply your opinion that it was, I see no need to apologize. Maybe I will as soon as you people "apologize" to me for insinuating that I'm KJVOnly!

Since this seems to be a total misunderstanding on both sides, I APOLOGIZE to one and all.........you too, Pastor!:godisgood:

The second response is the better one, IMO. :thumbs:

Ed

 

[Baptist4life]

If you're *not* KJVO,then what other English translations of God's word would you recommend?

Any version that YOU like. Well, not the Jehovah's Witness version. Unlike certain people, I read and understand the KJV very well, and since I've used it for over 50 years, I find it a perfectly good version to use. NIV, NKJV, NASB, HCSB and a few others are all OK with me. I just think it's crazy that people want to discard a version (KJV) that was used and understood, and loved by many, with none of the "bashing" of it until about 35 years ago! Until the MV's appeared NNE made the kinds of comments against the KJV that they do now.MV's are fine for those that prefer them, why not just use them, and let those who prefer the KJV use that? So many posts about how "we should read an MV because we'll understand it better". Anyway, I don't see the need to continue forcing my views on other people. I wish those MV preferred posters would do the same.

 

[gb93433]

I just think it's crazy that people want to discard a version (KJV) that was used and understood, and loved by many, with none of the "bashing" of it until about 35 years ago! Until the MV's appeared NNE made the kinds of comments against the KJV that they do now.MV's are fine for those that prefer them, why not just use them, and let those who prefer the KJV use that? So many posts about how "we should read an MV because we'll understand it better".

Your same argument was used when the KJV showed up on the scene. It has been used in many countries when a newer translation showed up.

The KJV has gone through many revisions since 1611.

I wonder there have been few if any in America who have argued to abandon all English translations in favor of the Greek and Hebrew texts?

 

[Japheth10]

Until the MV's appeared NNE made the kinds of comments against the KJV that they do now.

Really?!

Well,what about the Puritans that would NOT use the Anglican Version,but rather used the Geneva instead?


Their outlook on the Anglican version was less than admirable....

 

[Rippon]

But the "style"of the ESV is not far removed from that of the KJV.The ESV is use quite different English styles.I'm surprised that you haven't noticed the superiority of the HCSB.

"The ESV is use quite different English styles."?! You can tell it was past my bedtime.I meant that the ESV uses an English style that isn't very different from the KJV.I'm surprised when folks put the HCSB in the same category as the ESV.The former uses more understandable English for people living in the 21st century.