Na-28!!!

[SolaSaint]

First I read this good post by JoJ...



Them I read this reply by SolaSaint...



Well buddy JoJ just pointed out that Dr MacArthur uses a flawe
d approach to exegetical methodology. Then you blow past it and say you're gonna trust Dr MacArthur without any regard to what JoJ just posted.

Well I won't be taking much of you have to say seriously for a little bit. :BangHead:

Who is to say Joj is correct. I think I can place my trust in Mac. Anyway please read my entire post. I was not trying to dis anyone. Sounds like you are picking fight.

 

[John of Japan]

Who is to say Joj is correct.

Any Greek grammar--absolutely any Greek grammar! :tongue3:

You don't seriously think I'm the first Greek teacher to note the mistaken application to the plural nouns in Eph. 4:11, do you?

Try this article, quoting the great A. T. Robertson as saying the GS rule is not for plural nouns: http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/index.php?id=1039&issue=Volume+41,+Number+4.

I could give you many more such links, and if I were in Japan with my library I could give you quotes from a half dozen grammars.

 

[TCGreek]

Keep my NA27.

 

[Yeshua1]

Keep my NA27.

Unless one is into textual criticism for researching/studies, or trying to translate the origianl languages into another one, is there a 'real need' to keep updating the greek texts everytime one gets released?

is the actual text itself changing, or just the textual sources/varients/appartus etc?

 

[Greektim]

Unless one is into textual criticism for researching/studies, or trying to translate the origianl languages into another one, is there a 'real need' to keep updating the greek texts everytime one gets released?

is the actual text itself changing, or just the textual sources/varients/appartus etc?

Right... it is just an update and change in the apparatus. Though... the text may change slightly w/ the update, study, collation, and application of newly published Mss.

 

[John of Japan]

Who is to say Joj is correct. I think I can place my trust in Mac. Anyway please read my entire post. I was not trying to dis anyone. Sounds like you are picking fight.

I have to add here that since my last post a Greek scholar friend has informed me that he thinks the GS rule may sometimes apply to the plural, in particular in Eph. 4:11. So there is not a total consensus among Greek scholars.

A basic statement of the GS rule is that if there are two singular nouns describing a person or persons connected with kai ("and"), with a definite article before the first and not the second, the two nouns are referring to the same person. I'll not derail the thread by giving the technical points made by my friend to say that applying the GS rule to plural nouns is possible. Suffice it to say that there are some out there who agree with MacArthur. My objection to the examples given by my friend (Jn 7:45, Mt 2:4, Mt 4:25, Acts 1:8), are that they refer to two groups or locales being treated as one, but MacArthur's position is that pastor-teacher is one office, not two being treated as one.

My original advice to study the Greek still stands. As a preacher friend recently said to me, to him reading the Bible in English is reading it in black and white, while reading it in Greek is like reading it in color. :type:

 

[SolaSaint]

Any Greek grammar--absolutely any Greek grammar! :tongue3:

You don't seriously think I'm the first Greek teacher to note the mistaken application to the plural nouns in Eph. 4:11, do you?

Try this article, quoting the great A. T. Robertson as saying the GS rule is not for plural nouns: htI'lltp://www.biblicalevangelist.org/index.php?id=1039&issue=Volume+41,+Number+4.

I could give you many more such links, and if I were in Japan with my library I could give you quotes from a half dozen grammars.

John,

I apologize for I am way over my head on this topic. I'll look before I leap in the future.

 

[John of Japan]

John,

I apologize for I am way over my head on this topic. I'll look before I leap in the future.

Hey, no problem. :wavey: Discussing the Greek grammar is something I truly enjoy (weird, huh?), so thanks for the chance.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have to add here that since my last post a Greek scholar friend has informed me that he thinks the GS rule may sometimes apply to the plural, in particular in Eph. 4:11. So there is not a total consensus among Greek scholars.

A basic statement of the GS rule is that if there are two singular nouns describing a person or persons connected with kai ("and"), with a definite article before the first and not the second, the two nouns are referring to the same person. I'll not derail the thread by giving the technical points made by my friend to say that applying the GS rule to plural nouns is possible. Suffice it to say that there are some out there who agree with MacArthur. My objection to the examples given by my friend (Jn 7:45, Mt 2:4, Mt 4:25, Acts 1:8), are that they refer to two groups or locales being treated as one, but MacArthur's position is that pastor-teacher is one office, not two being treated as one.

My original advice to study the Greek still stands. As a preacher friend recently said to me, to him reading the Bible in English is reading it in black and white, while reading it in Greek is like reading it in color. :type:

Since the pastor is also seen same as an Elder in the NT , would say that it just makes sense that pastors would be gifted also as teachers, as that would be their primary "job", to equip and build up the flock assigned to them by jesus!

 

[John of Japan]

Since the pastor is also seen same as an Elder in the NT , would say that it just makes sense that pastors would be gifted also as teachers, as that would be their primary "job", to equip and build up the flock assigned to them by jesus!

Yes, part of the job of a pastor is to teach. However, to eliminate the separate position of teacher is, IMO, not what Eph. 4:11 is saying. Otherwise, if we are pastor/teachers, why would Paul be telling Tim to be "apt to teach"? But this would make a good separate thread.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, part of the job of a pastor is to teach. However, to eliminate the separate position of teacher is, IMO, not what Eph. 4:11 is saying. Otherwise, if we are pastor/teachers, why would Paul be telling Tim to be "apt to teach"? But this would make a good separate thread.

Sounds like an interesting topic!


Would say that all pastors should be gifted to teach the bible, but not all teachers gifted to be pastors!