As such, no parable introduces new truth, such as the vine being Israel.
My apologies, John, I said I would present the concept in the vine being Israel as found in the Old Testament, and in my haste to get out of here earlier I plum forgot, lol.
Here are a few:
Psalm 80:8, 14-15
King James Version (KJV)
8 Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.
14 Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine;
15 And the vineyard which thy right hand hath planted, and the branch that thou madest strong for thyself.
Isaiah 5
King James Version (KJV)
1 Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:
2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.
3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.
4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?
5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:
6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.
7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.
Jeremiah 2:18-21
King James Version (KJV)
18 And now what hast thou to do in the way of Egypt, to drink the waters of Sihor? or what hast thou to do in the way of Assyria, to drink the waters of the river?
19 Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God of hosts.
20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.
21 Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?
So we do not have something that is new, it is a concept that Jews would have understood. And we see the same concept throughout Christ's ministry.
So the parable, like that of the Tabernacle (Hebrews 9), is that which can be viewed as the relationship God created with Israel when He brought them out of Egypt.
So when Christ states "I am the True Vine," within that concept He presents is the reality of Christ being God Who made provision for Israel (from their very creation) and that He replaces Israel's long standing understanding (which was valid) of God being the One Who established the Vine (Israel).
Instead of being brought into a land (in the creation of the Church, His Body), we are placed in Him.
Where I teach we have a kind of Keswick theology, if you are familiar with that. We interpret the vine as Christ, of course, but the branches are individual Christians (disciples, if you will). As a branch attached to the vine of Christ, we seek to live the Christ life with His spiritual nourishment and the energy of the Holy Spirit.
Not familiar with Keswick Theology.
But I agree with the above, and again point out that this was true for Israel: when they remained in Him, they prospered. The difference being, when we are in the Vine what is guaranteed is pruning, and no possibility of not producing fruit.
This...
John 15
King James Version (KJV)
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Is not spoken to born again Christians, for they have not yet been baptized with the Holy Ghost (immersed into God in eternal union), are not eternally indwelt (as verified by His teaching in John 14, see also John 7:38-39), and as of yet are not believing on Him as the Risen Savior (see Mark 16:9-14). He is speaking to Jewish disciples and...
...speaking of the day that is coming when they will have to exchange relationship with God through the Covenant of Law with relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
In other words, the options are remaining under the Covenant of Law, or, abiding in the True Vine, which is relationship with Christ.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Note that there is a definite command to abide, and those who do will not fail to bear fruit, which speaks of, not a relationship that can have men abiding or not, but only the possibility that one will abide or they will not.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Just as John the Baptist preached two outcomes for Christ's ministry, either being baptized with the Holy Ghost (eternal salvation, wheat gathered into His garner), or being baptized with fire (chaff, burned with unquenchable fire, familiar terminology for eternal judgment), that is no different here.
Now, the last point I would make (I know this is getting a little long), is that the disciples cannot be said, at this time, to be abiding in Christ. They will forsake the Lord in just a few short hours, as it was prophesied:
John 16:28-32
King James Version (KJV)
28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?
32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
One could argue that they were weak in the flesh, but, in light of the evidence against their being born again Christians at this time, it makes little sense to raise that argument. Mark 16:9-14 shows that they did not believe the Lord had risen from the dead, and it was not until He rebukes them for their unbelief that they believe it is Him. The above shows Christ does not accept their claim of belief.
Okay, a little long, but I do hope you will take the time to give this some thought. That is why I present it to you, because you seem to put a little more into considering things than most.
God bless.
