Narnia...more to chew on.

[PastorSBC1303]

Originally posted by shannonL:
Why do you come back and post your little
digs if your not interested yourself?

I posted what I did because there have been plenty of threads going around and around about this topic. One more is not going to solve anything, but just going to keep things stirred up and get tempers riled.

Answer or debate some of the things mentioned or go do something else. What is your opinion on the fact that occultic figures are used in Narnia? Do you think it is harmless, are you indifferent to the subject or what?

I appreciate your concern with how I use my time. But I think I can handle that on my own.

My opinion is "so what?". Lewis has an allegory that many people have enjoyed over the years. What harm has it caused people? There are so many good issues in the world to be concerned about and you are worried about this?

Than read silly, school boy replies.

It was not a silly school boy reply. It was an honest statement of frustration about the constant around and around nature of this topic.

A silly school boy reply would be "I'm putty, you are glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you"

It is not pastoral. If one of your folk have concerns or questions is that how you treat them? Offer some imput pro or con or move on.

Again, I appreciate your concern for my time and my pastoral image. But I think I can handle it.

My people and I have had meaningful dialogues about such topics. And we concluded that this is yet another in the long line of issues that people get so wrapped in that they forget why believers are here on this earth. People get so worked up about an image in a movie. Yet they will not walk across the street to tell their lost neighbor about Christ. Go figure.

If you don't like the movie, don't see it. Other than that why waste so much time bickering about such nonsense?

Can you show me one situation in the Gospels where Jesus boycotted or spoke against a situation like this? What did Jesus do? He interacted with people and shared with them the truth. Believers today would do much better to get back to that simple approach instead of getting up in arms about every movie, event and situation in our world today. We are not going to change the world by fussing about a movie or a novel. The world changes by taking the Gospel to people and allowing God to change their heart and lives.

I just often times think that evangelicals put Lewis on some kind of pedestal that Lewis himself would not agree with. I personally dont think the man was as evangelical as evangelicals like to make him out to be.

I agree he should not be on a pedestal. But I have not read anyone on this thread here doing that?

He also does not deserve to be constantly run in the ground by some that do not agree with his novels or this movie.

 

[Humblesmith]

Shannon and Thunder:

1. You're overreacting.
2. Lewis' professional field of study was midieval literature. He chose to use the themes he was familiar with.
3. He lived in a different time & different culture than we do.
4. Lewis specifically said he was trying to reach a children's audience who had grown callous to the gospel stories, and wanted to reach them in an entertaining way. British children are taught bible stories in school, and they all know the stories well.
5. Tolkein specifically denied any Christian allegory in his trilogy (see the preface).
6. Lewis specifically denied being a theologian, and gave the reader suggestions to disregard what they disagreed with.
7. If you don't like Lewis' work, don't read it. But don't feel you have a mission to destroy the man by measuring his work in a way that it was never intended to be measured.
8. Let it rest, please. Beating this dead horse and dividing over it is violation of Romans 14. I won't continue it.

 

[Petrel]

Originally posted by shannonL:
However Tolkien wasn't writing about God or Christ nor was he known to be a devout christian so to me no big deal because he wasnt' trying to send some kind of message that related to the Gospel through the movie.

Tolkien was a devout Christian (instrumental in Lewis' conversion) and considered the Lord of the Rings a profoundly religious story.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

SBCPastor wrote:
"My people and I have had meaningful dialogues about such topics. And we concluded that this is yet another in the long line of issues that people get so wrapped in that they forget why believers are here on this earth. People get so worked up about an image in a movie. Yet they will not walk across the street to tell their lost neighbor about Christ. Go figure."


perhaps you can explain to me why Christian bookstores including the nation's largest chain, are cashing in on narnia? you walk in the doors and WHAM - it's ALL about narnia. narnia sells because it is promoted to "look like" the Gospel.

granted, CS Lewis never wrote or promoted TCON to become the monster it has - but disney saw $$$$$$ and an opportunity to draw in the christian market - you don't think they are not laughing all the way to the bank? so we really DO need to talk about this. kids are enamoured with it. they are being told by pastors, sunday school teachers, christian school teachers, and christian parents that narnia IS the gospel in another form.

Hello?????? take off the rose colored glasses and look around. satan is having a field day and christians are providing the participants for his entertainment - and he has a front row seat.

 

[eloidalmanutha]

I thought the article [OP link] was very effective, and well presented with facts - as was shannonL's post. I very much appreciate her story as I can confirm that dabbling in the occult, no matter how "innocent" - there is always the danger of major complications. I was on that precipice myself, but for the grace of God I was pulled back from the edge. I have also met with people who are demonically controlled because they were messing around and "having fun" - "no harm", "chill out, man!" and all - "it's just a movie", "it's just a book" - you know the track. Sort of like russian roulette.

Narnia is really just another a sip of arsenic. It works like compromise - here a little, there a little building up immunity against the truth. In the end, you won't know how much you have incepted until it's too late.

 

[TaterTot]

Exactly, if you dont like it, dont read or see it. Paul took pagan images and taught the people in way that they could relate to. He bacme all things to all people so that by all means some might be saved.

If my kids at church are gonna be discussing it and thinking about it, I am going to be able to discuss it with them intelligently. Even things I dont agree with. I just happen to see the beauty in what you do not see.

The goal of the film wasnt to convert people. But people can relate to it.

 

[Mike McK]

From that site...

[qb]

- Pan is a spirit that lives in the forest, according to
Greek mythology. Where does Tumnus live? In the forest![/b]

I live in the forest. My home is in the middle of a large forest on the Chesapeake Bay. Does that mean that I'm Pan, too?

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

And now, Bro. Josh will lead us in a rousing chorus of "Let it Go..." sung to the tune of "He is Lord".

Let it go, let it go,
The dead horse that you have killed
Died long ago.
Every one is tired,
No one cares no more,
This issue's now a bore.

EVERYONE SING ALONG!

Let it go, let it lie,
There's nothing new to say;
The well is dry.
You have made your point,
Thanks, I don't agree...
So watch me wave goodbye!

Thanks for another inflaming article, Boanerges. Didn't read past the first paragraph, and don't care to. Hope you get over the bitterness you've exhibited soon.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

[eloidalmanutha]

posted by TaterTot:
Exactly, if you dont like it, dont read or see it. Paul took pagan images and taught the people in way that they could relate to. He bacme all things to all people so that by all means some might be saved.

I am SO glad you brought that up, I was just reading Acts 17, actually. Let's do a comparison

Here's the real deal:

Acts 17:22 ¶ And standing in the middle of the Areopagus, Paul said, Men, Athenians, I see in everything how god-fearing you are;
23 for passing through and looking up at the objects of your worship, I also found an altar on which had been written, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Not knowing, then, whom you worship, I make Him known to you.
24 The God who made the world and all things in it, this One being Lord of Heaven and of earth, does not dwell in handmade temples,
25 nor is served by hands of men, as having need of anything. For He is giving life and breath and all things to all.
26 And He made every nation of men of one blood, to live on all the face of the earth, ordaining fore-appointed seasons and boundaries of their dwelling,
27 to seek the Lord, if perhaps they might feel after Him and might find Him, though indeed He not being far from each one of us.
28 For in Him we live and move and exist, as also some of the poets among you have said, For we are also His offspring.
29 Then being offspring of God, we ought not to suppose that the Godhead is like gold or silver or stone, engraved by art and the imagination of man.
30 Truly, then, God overlooking the times of ignorance, now strictly commands all men everywhere to repent,
31 because He set a day in which "He is going to judge the habitable world in righteousness," by a Man whom He appointed; having given proof to all by raising Him from the dead. Psa. 9:8
32 ¶ And hearing of a resurrection of the dead, some indeed ridiculed, but said, We will hear you again concerning this.
33 And so Paul went out from their midst.
34 But some men believed, joining themselves to him, among whom also were both Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.


A) Paul drew the people AWAY FROM pagaism/mythology and TO THE Gospel.

B) Narnia draws people AWAY FROM the Gospel and INTO Mythology.


"A" works for me

Part 2

Acts 19:13 ¶ But certain from the strolling Jews, exorcists, undertook to name the name of the Lord Jesus over those having evil spirits, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.
14 And there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, doing this.
15 But answering the evil spirit said, I know Jesus, and I comprehend Paul, but who are you?
16 And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, and having overmastered them, he was strong against them, so that having been wounded and naked, they fled out of that house.
17 And this became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, those living in Ephesus. And fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
18 And many of those who had believed came confessing, and reporting their practices.
19 And many of the ones practicing the curious arts, bringing together the books, burned them before all. And they counted the prices of them, and found it to be fifty thousands of silver.
20 So with might, the Word of the Lord increased and was strong.


Anyone for a book burning party?

 

[TaterTot]

oh whatever

 

[rbell]

Originally posted by eloidalmanutha:
Anyone for a book burning party?

(insert crickets sound here)

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by shannonL:
Why does an supposed allegory of Christ have to be mixxed in with pagan figures etc....

It doesn't have to. But paralleling scripture in works of fiction is nothing new, and is not forbidden. I certainly didn't see anyone protesting any of the Indiana Jones movies. Lewis was well versed in medieval literature. So he wrote what he knew about. Nothing remotely wrong with that.

I say Narnia was great entertainment and that was it.

Most will agree. But some here have decided for the rest that we should not be entertained as such. You will find mo shortage of pharisees that will falsely claim of the brethren, "if you see Narnia, then you are replacing scripture with a movie". I don't know a single person who has replaced scripture with any movie. Except perhaps a few who take Left Behind too seriously.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Let it go...

No one... NNE... has put the fiction of Narnia on the same level of Scripture. NEVER in the history of this discussion has anyone espoused such a foreign and ridiculous idea. Get a grip... and let it go.

In His Grip,
joshua

 

[shannonL]

SBC,

It is not the debate itself that causes tempers to flare it is the condescending remarks from individuals who disagree with each others opinions.
I really don't care that much at all whether one goes to see Narnia or not. It doesn't make that person more conservative or less or more serious or not.
My opinion is simply the fact that anytime occultic figures,practices, magic etc... is involved in a book , film etc.. A christian should simply be on their toes and have their eyes open. They should be discerning. As harmless as things like what was presented in Narnia may be your stepping into the devil's territory when you start getting interested in mythology.
I simply think that fundamentalists from earlier years went to far in the legalistic dept. So now evangelicals are allowing the pendulum to swing to far in the other direction.
Anything goes it seems no matter what as long as it has a positive message or what have you.
Where there used to be a sharp line drawn between the sacred and the secular now one has a hard time telling the difference. Whether it be worship music entertainment and sadly sometimes even preaching.
Tater Tot was concerned about why so many christian kids couldn't decide about abortion in the proper biblical fashion on another thread.
It is simply because in the last 20 years especially the last 10 teachings of absolutes, do's and don'ts etc.. have become less and less appealing to folk. It is more wise in alot of folk's eyes to be more understanding of all views and sides instead of being dogmatic about particular issues. In turn we see this philosophy being brought to light in the next generation of christians. So we wonder why alot of kids cant' decide if abortion is always wrong or not.
We have believers who want to question everything. Is gambling a sin? Is this a sin is that a sin and on and on.
Some things are up for discussion and some are not. Don't gamble its poor stewardship. Its God's money He didn't give it to you to blow on five dollar lotto tickets.
Abortion is murder in every single case. I don't care if the lady is raped by her uncle she should have that baby. God can take the most vile wicked, grotesque situation and turn it around and use it or that person for His glory even if it is retarded child born from an incestual rape.
If He can't then He is not a sovereign God who is in control of everything. It is never right to murder.
I know that was off topic but in a sense it wasn't we wonder why are people are carnal and won't go witness to other folk and are not faithful in church and won't fully surrender it is because they won't completely empty themselves of the world and furthermore what is sad is we have ministers all around this country that foster the notion that everything is up for discussion when it is not and we wonder why our people have no convictions.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by shannonL:
I really don't care that much at all whether one goes to see Narnia or not. It doesn't make that person more conservative or less or more serious or not.

That's true. But those who see the movie are typically not making judgements about those who don't. It's typically those who choose not to, who are making kudgements of those who choose to.

My opinion is simply the fact that anytime occultic figures,practices, magic etc... is involved in a book , film etc.. A christian should simply be on their toes and have their eyes open. They should be discerning.

All well and good. But again, it among those who choose not see it who have decided that those who see it are lacking discernment, faith, etc; not the other way around.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

shannon,

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
Can you show me one situation in the Gospels where Jesus boycotted or spoke against a situation like this? What did Jesus do? He interacted with people and shared with them the truth. Believers today would do much better to get back to that simple approach instead of getting up in arms about every movie, event and situation in our world today. We are not going to change the world by fussing about a movie or a novel. The world changes by taking the Gospel to people and allowing God to change their heart and lives.

 

[Ransom]

shannonL said:

Why does an supposed allegory of Christ have to be mixxed in with pagan figures etc.... Why do that if your trying to present a clear message of the Gospel?

Lewis wasn't trying to present a clear message of the Gospel. Narnia isn't an allegory, of Christ or otherwise. It is a fairy tale with broad Christian themes.

Was it Lewis's intention in writing Narnia to have it be used as another great tool for evangelism

No, it was his intention to write a nice children's story that had the sorts of elements in it that children liked to read about, together with the side-effect that he hoped when they were older, their memories of reading Narnia might draw them back into reading the Bible.

 

[rbell]

ShannonL,

The logical thread connecting "narnia" to gambling, to abortion in my opinion is non-existent.

I do agree with you: we should be discerning in what we watch, read, etc.

But the OP's link goes far, far beyond that. It indicts anyone for watching narnia, even for entertainment's sake (forget stretching it into a gospel allegory).

Having a legalistic bent can be damaging to our witness for God, just like having no convictions damages our witness. I'd like to avoid both pitfalls.

 

[mcdirector]

I've been trying to find the interview all afternoon that I remember reading before. Now the net is so full of stuff about the movie, I'm having a difficult time finding it. CS Lewis said that his intention in writing the Narnia series was to tell a good story -- NOT a retelling of the gospel.

I'm chiming in here in agreement with Ransom. I just wish I could find the interview. I'll keep looking.

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by Humblesmith:
.......
1. You're overreacting.
2. Lewis' professional field of study was midieval literature. He chose to use the themes he was familiar with.
3. He lived in a different time & different culture than we do.
4. Lewis specifically said he was trying to reach a children's audience who had grown callous to the gospel stories, and wanted to reach them in an entertaining way. British children are taught bible stories in school, and they all know the stories well. ........
6. Lewis specifically denied being a theologian, and gave the reader suggestions to disregard what they disagreed with.
7. If you don't like Lewis' work, don't read it. But don't feel you have a mission to destroy the man by measuring his work in a way that it was never intended to be measured.
.........

Shannon,
Humblesmith addressed your questions very well.
Plus a traditional "classical" education included the study of Greek and Latin. The educational system of days past that we say we admire was heavily oriented towards Greek and mythic themes.

Lewis, in this, was NO different than any other well-educated person of his time.
It is a recent development to look at the purpose of college as a glorified trade school to assist in job-seeking.

Regarding Humblesmith's 4th point, to this day, Bible education to some degree occurs in English grade schools. I tend to believe that the average English child is more aware of Old Testament stories than the average American child.

Karen