Nativity Scenes and the Second Commandment

[rbell]

Interesting the things we chose to worry about being sin.

Let's quote the whole commandment:

Ex 20:4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:Ex 20:5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

Now the question becomes: Are these two separate commandments or does verse 5 provide clarification for verse 4?

If verse 4 is a commandment in it's own right, ya'll better get rid of your photos, your avatars, all the portraits, painting and sculptures in your house and your photocopiers cause we can stretch this commandment out to the point to where it forbids making copies of the original. Also, shouldn't have star charts for cause that would be a graven image of something in heaven above. No road maps cause that would be the earth below. Hey wait! That would mean no GPS device in your cars!

I think I've carried this out far enough.

A nativity scene is simply a three diminsional representation of a historical event. That's it. It is not an object one would consider a god. No need to make life more complicated than it is already.

Good grief...don't use context! It messes up a good rant!

 

[rbell]

It seems that many who think nativity scenes, crosses, etc., are a problem...

1. Are ignoring that said items aren't being worshipped.
2. Are going to have problem with any art that depicts anything religious whatsoever.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

My nativity scene represents the birth of Christ. I do not worship it, I worship what and who it represents.

I have pictures in my house of my children and grandchildren. I do not love the pictures, but I do love the people they represent.

I have not made any of them idols and I do not bow down before them or pray to them...

 

[Dale-c]

It seems that many who think nativity scenes, crosses, etc., are a problem...

1. Are ignoring that said items aren't being worshipped.

Is that really true?
Why not? It is inherently religious to make an image of Christ.

 

[dan e.]

Amy, read the article I posted above, you will see there is a lot more to it than what many think.

The only thing that is "more" is when you guys make it more than what people are saying. There are people that have plainly stated that these things are reminders of an extremely important event. Then you respond that it is worshiping a false image.....WHEN THEY JUST CLEARLY TOLD YOU THAT THEY DON'T.

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

And a hearty AMEN!, Dan!

 

[Rubato 1]

Actually, I think Rbell worships that sotp sign beside his namd on his post. Why else would it be everywhere like that?

 

[Dale-c]

PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU.

I am paying attention.
Are you?
PLease read that article I posted if you are so insistent on others "paying attention"

What others are telling me is that they are above idolatry and I am saying that they are not.

 

[Rubato 1]

C'mon, Dale-c, quit duckin' me. Whose image is that (whom you obviously adore, if not worship) that keeps showing up on your posts?

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Good question!

Is that an image you bow down to, Dale, or is it a reminder of someone you love?

 

[dan e.]

PLease read that article I posted if you are so insistent on others "paying attention"

Your "heady" article renders meaningless here...because what people have been telling you is that they are not forming idols. You are enforcing a scenario into this situation that doesn't exist.

 

[Dale-c]

Did you read the article?

 

[Dale-c]

Your "heady" article renders meaningless here...because what people have been telling you is that they are not forming idols.

So which is it:
Are people violating the second or third commandment here?
Are they using God vainly or are they committing idolatry?

It must be one or the other.

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Good question!

Is that an image you bow down to, Dale, or is it a reminder of someone you love?

Hmmmmmmmmm?

 

[dan e.]

Did you read the article?

Heck no I didn't read it....what kind of time do you think I have ?

Although, I did notice this one quote....that is the OPINION of the article, and illustrates my point:

"Therefore, any image of our Lord would be automatically religious or devotional in nature. As such it would immediately fall under the biblical perimeter of the regulative principle of worship." (6th paragraph...second sentence)

You are speaking to everyone here as if this statement is blanket truth....when it is merely this author's opinion. You are also speaking with the assumption that the formation of an idol is the same as a nativity scene.....which is your opinion....and requires a little hermeneutical gymnastics to demonstrate biblically.

 

[rbell]

I am paying attention.
Are you?
PLease read that article I posted if you are so insistent on others "paying attention"

What others are telling me is that they are above idolatry and I am saying that they are not.

I resent the accusation. I do not worship a nativity scene. Quit insinuating I do.

 

[tinytim]

Exo 20:4
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

If we take this literally without applying verse 5, any photograph is breaking the law...
For it is a likeness of something in earth..

Dale, you are taking it out of context when you don't apply the worship principle found in verse 5.

But to make everyone happy that don't feel comfortable with nativity scenes.. here is what I will do....

Instead of a nativity scene, I will put up a big blow up Santa Claus and Frosty the Snowman...
Neither one breaks this commandment since neither are real... Neither one can be found "in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:"

NOT!!!...
I will keep my nativity scene up.

Dale, notice the colon after the word "earth"...
that means there is more to this commandment than verse 4... you have to tie verse 5 to it...

Which means we are to not make things in order to worship them.

When someone kneels in front of my nativity scene, I will pick up the image of Joseph, and bop them over the head, and give them this commandment...
But until then... the nativity scene reminds our family what Christmas is truly about... Jesus Christ.

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Leave it up, he can close his eyes when he drives by.

 

[Amy.G]

When someone kneels in front of my nativity scene, I will pick up the image of Joseph, and bop them over the head, and give them this commandment

When you do that, please make a video and post it for us to see! :laugh:

Dale, I did read the article and it says nothing about the cross that hangs in my house, only pictures of Christ, which I do not have.

Personally, I don't like pics of Christ because they are nothing more than someone's opinion of what He looked like and I think there is a reason why God didn't allow for images of Christ to be made. However, I will not judge another for having images of Christ in their posession. Of course it is wrong to make images of our Lord into idols. But I am in much more danger of making idols of other things in my life.

Pictures are only representations of the real thing, unless you're a little off in the head.

 

[dan e.]

I'd suggest that there are more likely things like Bible translations held up as idols than a blow up nativity scene in someone's front yard.