Nativity Scenes and the Second Commandment

[PastorSBC1303]

Dale, you never answered my question....

I grew up with a nativity scene in our home. It was actually going to my parents house and seeing my daughter (15 months) playing with the same cloth nativity scene that we had when I was growing up that made me think about it.

Why is it ok for us to have idols at Christmas time but it is wrong for the Catholics to have that the rest of the year.

Dale, are you no longer allowing her to play with it?

 

[DHK]

Once again (I feel like a broken record) the idol is worshipped. No one is worshipping a nativity scene.

:BangHead:

Would you ever think of going into a business of carving out statuettes of Buddhas? Why or why not?

 

[Dale-c]

Dale, you never answered my question....

I am sorry, I meant to and then I forgot.

To answer, I hadn't really thought of it.
It hasn't come up again.

 

[Dale-c]

Originally Posted by rbell
Once again (I feel like a broken record) the idol is worshipped. No one is worshipping a nativity scene.

But the idol when it is of Christ is inherently religious.
If you are not using it religiously then you are being sacrilegious.
If you are using it religiously, you are being idolatrous.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I am sorry, I meant to and then I forgot.

To answer, I hadn't really thought of it.
It hasn't come up again.

Ok, I was just curious.

If you feel that Nativity scenes are idols, then surely your daughter should not be playing with it, and your family should really take it down.

Also, since you played with it as a child, does that make you an idol worshipper?

 

[faith.hope.love]

But the idol when it is of Christ is inherently religious.
If you are not using it religiously then you are being sacrilegious.
If you are using it religiously, you are being idolatrous.

I agree.

Also, as I stated earlier one dictionary's definition said:

1: a representation or symbol of an object of worship; broadly : a false god

I wound up returning the nativity scene since I'm not 100% positive it is okay (I think it might be okay with the empty manger, but not sure enough to do it).

Does that make sense?

Dale-c, do you celebrate Christmas, and if so, how? Or are we not supposed to discuss that on this thread?

 

[faith.hope.love]

Ok, I was just curious.

If you feel that Nativity scenes are idols, then surely your daughter should not be playing with it, and your family should really take it down.

Also, since you played with it as a child, does that make you an idol worshipper?

Anyone can repent, right?:thumbs:

 

[rbell]

But the idol when it is of Christ is inherently religious.
If you are not using it religiously then you are being sacrilegious.
If you are using it religiously, you are being idolatrous.

And that, my friends, is the logic of the 360 degree persuasion. :laugh:

 

[Dale-c]

Dale-c, do you celebrate Christmas, and if so, how? Or are we not supposed to discuss that on this thread?

I do observe it to some degree. I exchange gifts etc but I don't get very active with it.
I only make an issue out of the very important issues.

 

[faith.hope.love]

I do observe it to some degree. I exchange gifts etc but I don't get very active with it.
I only make an issue out of the very important issues.

I have celebrated my entire life... this year I am not so enthusiastic mainly because we call it Jesus' birthday, yet it existed before His birth. I am in agreement in teaching others about God instead of some pagan god, but not sure teaching it while using the old pagan traditions is appropriate. I am going to focus on God sending His Son to save us when talking to my kids that day... pretty much just going over what they already know, I guess.

I am giving them gifts for fun, not for any religious reason. We have no tree this year, and now no nativity scene, but we did put up lights.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Are you saying Dale, that something religious must inherently be used as an object for worship?

Would that mean our church buildings, which are obviously religious in nature, are being worshipped while we are in them for the purposes of worship? If we're having dinner in the fellowship hall are we worshipping the kitchen?

A representation of Christ cannot be an idol unless someone believes Christ's spirit inhabits that representation. It's the perceived inhabitation of the representation by a god that makes it an idol.

Here is another question: I believe that we all understand that Christ fulfill the law. If this is the case and Christ also became God in human form would this also not fulfill the graven image commandment because now we understand that God does not inhabit inanimate objects, but wishes instead to inhabit our souls?

 

[Dale-c]

I have celebrated my entire life... this year I am not so enthusiastic mainly because we call it Jesus' birthday, yet it existed before His birth. I am in agreement in teaching others about God instead of some pagan god, but not sure teaching it while using the old pagan traditions is appropriate. I am going to focus on God sending His Son to save us when talking to my kids that day... pretty much just going over what they already know, I guess.

I am giving them gifts for fun, not for any religious reason. We have no tree this year, and now no nativity scene, but we did put up lights.

Looks like we are on the same page.
I guess I kind of tolerate Christmas.

I don't get picky about "keeping Christ in Christmas" because Christmas is a materialistic mud puddle that I don't wish to drag my savior through.

All of that said, just because some people do things wickedly doesn't mean that a Christian can't do things to God's glory.

So, my advice is:
GO ahead, exchange gifts. Have a good time with your family.
Do it all to the glory of GOd.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I am in agreement in teaching others about God instead of some pagan god, but not sure teaching it while using the old pagan traditions is appropriate.

Whereas Paul had no trouble using a pagan temple inscription to point the way to the Savior. Again, I don't see the problem.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Let's try this again...

Ok, I was just curious.

If you feel that Nativity scenes are idols, then surely your daughter should not be playing with it, and your family should really take it down.

Also, since you played with it as a child, does that make you an idol worshipper?

 

[Dale-c]

Also, since you played with it as a child, does that make you an idol worshipper?

I have never worshiped a nativity scene. I have never purchased or made one. I have never set one up in my house.

The first active role I have had in one is to disallow them from my house.

Now, as I child, perhaps I did sin by the inapropriate use of such. I am not sure. I don't remember.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I have never worshiped a nativity scene.

Neither have I, and many others who have nativity scenes in their homes every year.

 

[Dale-c]

MK, there is nothing holy about a church building. It is purely circumstantial.

A church can meet in a hotel conference room. A leased office space.
Or a dedicated buidling. It is all the same. The only point of a dedicated building is it is better in practical terms.
It does not allow for more holy worhip.

By the way, lest anyone misunderstand, there is nothing evil in the physical materal of any sort of idol.

Driving by and seeing an idol in front of a church does not make me or anyone else sin.

 

[Dale-c]

Here is another question: I believe that we all understand that Christ fulfill the law. If this is the case and Christ also became God in human form would this also not fulfill the graven image commandment because now we understand that God does not inhabit inanimate objects, but wishes instead to inhabit our souls?

WHat is this supposed to mean? That idolatry is ok now?

 

[Dale-c]

Are you saying Dale, that something religious must inherently be used as an object for worship?

No, I am saying that images of Christ are wrong and that any image of God is inherently religious.
An image of me or of you is not.

 

[TCGreek]

Dale and SBC,

Here's a question I have for you guys: Do we really need the nativity scene to celebrate Christmas meaningfully?