Need A True Explaination of Calvinism

[webdog]

How I'm supposed to see how this stuff helps your argument is beyond me. And since you refuse to offer further explanation, I'm going to assume that you don't know.

Since I went back through the last 4 pages, I failed to see where you stated how a newborn has "sinned", past tense. Please supply the link to that statement. Once you know that, you will have your answer.

Again, I've said this as well. We didn't just die from any sin, we died from Adam's sin. Read Romans 5, Paul always takes it back to one man, Adam, no one else.

As I have already shown, we die in the same manner as Adam...not IN Adam.

Please address when "all sinned", past tense.

Am I God? How would I know when you or anyone committed their first sin!

Please address when "the many died", past tense.
Please address when "the many were made sinners", past tense.

See above answer...

 

[johnp.]

If it's not physical, why are you still going to die someday? You've received new life, haven't you? It has been appointed to man once to die, hasn't it? How did that come about?

"the many died"​

Will die, is dying, has died as in past tense. "the many will die" Is not scriptural and does not say that so you shouldn't webdog. You shouldn't blank it either.

john.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Since I went back through the last 4 pages, I failed to see where you stated how a newborn has "sinned", past tense. Please supply the link to that statement. Once you know that, you will have your answer.

A newborn has sinned, because she/he is part of the "because all sinned".

As I have already shown, we die in the same manner as Adam...not IN Adam.

Which has nothing to do with Satan.
So drop it already.

Am I God? How would I know when you or anyone committed their first sin!

Paul wrote "because all sinned" long before you or I sinned as an alive person.
So what did he mean, "all sinned"?
What did he mean, "the many died"?
I haven't died yet.

You are avoiding dealing with the past tense nature of the passage.
What more can I say to you.

 

[johnp.]

If Paul wanted to say what you say he says then he could have used both those statements because both are true webdog.

For if the many will die by the trespass of the one man

For if the many are dying by the trespass of the one man

But Paul said, "The many died."

RO 5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

PS 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

john.

 

[webdog]

A newborn has sinned, because she/he is part of the "because all sinned".

Wrong, try again. Sin is defined most basically in 1 John 3:4 "whoever committs sin transgresses the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. God defines that boundary He sets between Himself and mankind...sin is the transgression of His holy, spiritual law (Romans 7:12-14). So, again, what transgression of God's law as a newborn committed? I see nothing about association whatsoever...

Which has nothing to do with Satan.
So drop it already.

I'm sorry, did I mention satan anywhere? Let me help you out: we die in the same manner as Adam...not IN Adam.

Paul wrote "because all sinned" long before you or I sinned as an alive person.
So what did he mean, "all sinned"?
What did he mean, "the many died"?
I haven't died yet.

You are avoiding dealing with the past tense nature of the passage.
What more can I say to you.

The past tense part of the text is EXACTLY what I am dealing with. It doesn't fit your Augustinian package and that's why you refuse to see it.

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Wrong, try again. Sin is defined most basically in 1 John 3:4 "whoever committs sin transgresses the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. God defines that boundary He sets between Himself and mankind...sin is the transgression of His holy, spiritual law (Romans 7:12-14). So, again, what transgression of God's law as a newborn committed? I see nothing about association whatsoever...

Well, when you refuse to acknowledge Paul's use of "because all sinned", no one apparantly can help you understand the obvious association.
You can quote all the other passages about sin in the Bible, I'm concerned right now about Paul's words in Romans 5.

I'm sorry, did I mention satan anywhere?

Yes, you did here:

If this were the case, Adam would have died in Lucifer, and not when HE sinned.

And then I said:

Again, I've said this as well. We didn't just die from any sin, we died from Adam's sin. Read Romans 5, Paul always takes it back to one man, Adam, no one else.

Which got us to where we are now.

The past tense part of the text is EXACTLY what I am dealing with.

Oh, so you explained why Paul uses "DIED"?
Not yet.
We're still waiting.

 

[webdog]

Well, when you refuse to acknowledge Paul's use of "because all sinned", no one apparantly can help you understand the obvious association.

Wow, I never thought I'd see a calvinist fight so hard to defend the word "all"
The "all" are those who sinned.

You can quote all the other passages about sin in the Bible, I'm concerned right now about Paul's words in Romans 5.

I think it's important to let Bible explain Bible, don't you? Context rules.

Oh, so you explained why Paul uses "DIED"?
Not yet.
We're still waiting.

I thought that was what I was trying to explain these past half dozen or so pages...

 

[Isaiah40:28]

Well Webdog,
I think we've exhausted this particular discussion.
I've said everything I can to make my viewpoint understood.
To each his own, right?

 

[skypair]

Yeah...

...seems like we've had enough explanations of how infants who die go to hell. I suppose C-ism could make that point every Sunday and just relieve their congregations of any hope on that account.

Or maybe just provide us with another gospel that allows them to be saved.

This is absolutely one of the horrendous flaws of C-ism that a C-ist can't look in the face intellectually.

Sorry, C-ists. You got the defintion of "sin nature" all wrong.

skypair