Need advice....embezzlement of church funds....

Basically, the Pastor, Deacons, Trustees, and both Treasurers are and should be held accountable. If the leadership is not willing to do what is right then the leadership needs to be fired. There are so many things going on here that my mind is swimming with thoughts. Stand up and do what is right and if needed fight (NOT literally) for what is right and needs to happen.

 

Whoa!!! Hold on now, two wrongs never make a right. It is wrong to withhold tithe to the church that you are a member of. God is already going to take care of them, but do not put your neck on the line with God, He is the one that you are serving and not them. Do not hold back you tithes, that is totally against scripture.

Yes, forgive her, but take care of the matter within the church before going to the police. Something about taking a brother to law that Paul said.

 

Doodlebug,

I really feel for you. You and your husband need to stand your ground, be blameless, be above reproach, be holy, be godly. The truth will come out.

These leaders must be held accountable, but it may not be accomplished here on earth. It sounds like some of them won't be in heaven either. The pastor has got to address the situation and do it according to the Scriptures and church by-laws. Just because Matthew 18 had never been previously applied does not mean it shouldn't start now. Do it. It sounds like your husband is a confidant of the pastor. Perhaps he should talk to some area pastors for some help. The bottom line is the cause of Christ will suffer because of this.

There's nothing wrong with casting out the leadership and starting over. If the leaders refuse to lead, you've got to get people in there who will. It also sounds like a good number of the leadership is related. That's going to be a problem as well.

On another related matter. I think you mentioned one deacon had been a deacon for 30 years? If that's the case, I think you need to revamp the policy for deacons. I think deacons need to rotate out at least one year for evey three years served. This provides an opportunity for them to serve in other areas and allows others to serve in the deacon ministry. It also minimizes the chance of building an empire. Let's face it, not all deacons are deacons because they desire to serve the Lord. No pastor should have to deal with power hungry people in the church.

 

I've always attended churches where the offerings were counted in the presence of four deacons, and as a former accountant, I have to tell you folks - the person who handles receivables should NOT be the one who handles payables.

Regarding this situation - My sister's church went through the very same thing, almost exactly like this. They made some interesting discoveries that might help you. First - you can't even remove the person from their position for this crime if you don't take legal action. Otherwise, you open the church up to a defamation of character or wrongful dismissal kind of law suit.
Second - you can't protect the church against possible bad consquences to the church. If a member of the congregation sued or someone the church owed money to sues, you can't defend yourself if you don't have it on record.
Third - you can't set an example to your young people or your congregation if you tell them God's commandments don't matter in relation to the church. Christ told us to be good citizens and to obey authority. That has to extend to crimes of this nature. You will lose great numbers of people from your congregation if you allow them to think, even for a minute, you might secretly condone this action because it was a member of the staff.

My sister's church ended up prosecuting, but asking the court to give her probabtion and liency. This allowed them to make her suffer some consequences for her actions, allowed THEM to collect on some insurance money, and yet it showed forgiveness to her.

 

Shurley,

You gotta back this one up:

... and please do not quote Malachi out of context ...

What I have read says that Tithes are presented in the presence of God ... Deut 14: 22 & ff

 

Doodle,

Sometimes, you have to let time and let God work slower than we would like ... And while it would be nicer to just forgive and forget, it may take weeks to figure out how much damage was done. We cannot really forgive until we know the extent of a sin.

In Christ

 

What about taking a timeout of a few weeks ?

 

There should always be more than one person on the account, stuff happens, vacations, illnesses, deaths, disagreements, etc. This is the churches account, it should not be difficult at all to resolve.

 

Ive been reading this thread, and I have a question to add. What can doodlebug herself really do? I know as a lady in my church, if something like were going on, I'd feel very frustrated, and as if I was not really able to do anything at all. What are the women able to do when they see stuff like this? I don't think we ought to be the ones to go and "confront" the pastor or the deacons, and of course we can't force our husband to do something he doesn't see as necessary.
Could she go and speak to the woman herself, as one woman to another...try to reason with her? Or would that be overstepping her bounds?
I know as women we are not totally without influence..... .......but still, what would be the woman's Biblical response?

 

This treasurer was responsible for doing things indecently and in disorder. If dual accountability is a better way, then fine, do it that way. I have no problem with that. I am the treasurer of our church. I count the money, make the deposit, and pay the bills all by myself (not my decision). It is done decently and in order. The Chairman of the Board of Trustees has access to the account and can sign checks, also. A detailed report for every penny is given each month at the business meeting. The church has access to the books, receipts, bills, bank account statements anytime they want. Is there potential for abuse? Absolutely, but potential for abuse exists if two, three, four, or five are involved, it is only less likely. Single accountability is not by definition indecent or disorderly.

 

You and who ever you can get to keep doing things God's way.Keep doing it. If you commit yourselves to faithfully do this. you will not only see this family loos there unBiblical grip on the church but new God fearing growth as well. When you question about asking people to a messed up church it. We were at a similar place a few months ago. but commited ourselves to do it "by the Book". It does look like your church has fallen into the trap of turning to the deacons for an authority the Bible does not give them. you will want to eventually clean that up. but the urgent thing now is to stand up for the defense of the Gospel and the Truth. It might be difficult but don't give up. We now have only one person from the original "power hungry" family left. When God was given control they left to seek a place they could rule.

 

another point to consider. you will find another thing going to come up. that is "keep the peace at all cost" Don't take this the wrong way. NO ! NO! NO!
When it comes to the church we "remove the wicked from among you" . you must achive unity first. It is the body of Christ there is to be no division. But there will be at first until this is cleaned up. You see these who are not wanting to do things God's way are rebeling against God. Achive unity (it might take a while) then the peace will come.

 

I would never attend a church with a spineless, passive Pastor like you describe. Find a man of God that is not afraid to offend people by God's Word. The type of person that isn't strongly opinionated is not fit to pastor a local New Testament church.

 

Fundamentalist1611

unfortunately we be seeing more and more "spineless, passive Pastor"s as time goes. The "feel good" messages are becoming very popular and in a church were the deacons have unBiblical authority they aslo (many do)have as one of the top priorities more people. so if you can get one of them cemetery...oops I mean seminary cadilac preachers to give some feel good , no toe stepping, ear ticlkeing, how ever you want to live sermons. the hang on to him cuz you see the people flock to him.

 

doodlebug,

it sounds like there's alot of talking about what's going on by people who really don't know what they are talking about. Part of what I think you can absolutely do is NOT contribute to the story-telling. Remember, the pastor also has a pastor's heart towards this lady who did this. He wants to see her restored and not irreparably harmed in your church community. If I were you, Id try to pray that God would give me the same sort of love for her. It would at least help to protect your own spirit.

I don't think you CAN "encourage" your pastor to get a spine, as you put it. I understand your frustration.
How about suggesting to your husband that he offer his complete support to your pastor? Your pastor is afraid, perhaps because he feels alone. He is the one at the top, and everyone seems to be gunning for him now. Your husband can be a pillar for him, someone he knows supports him, and will stand behind him in the decisions he makes......even if it means splitting the church wide open. The way to "give" a man a spine, is to treat him like he already has one, and let him know of your support.

I'd say there needs to be a sermon preached that gets it all out in the open, lays it all out, lets everyone know exactly whats happening. But he probably won't do that unless he has a few men who he knows are behind him.
If you have any kind of influence, I'd say use it to gain support for your pastor. Get your friends to write him notes saying they support him. Get others to let that pastor know he isn't alone. Talk him up! and PRAY, PRAY, PRAY

 

... and please do not quote Malachi out of context ...

What I have read says that Tithes are presented in the presence of God ... Deut 14: 22 & ff </font>[/QUOTE]Ok,

Here we go.
1. Tithe is considered a just return to God for His blessings on us - Gen. 28:22
2. It is the tenth part of the blessing of God on us - I Sam 8:15 & 17
3. Reproof has been given by God to those who withhold their tithe - Mal. 3:8
4. Yes, tithes are presented to God, but they serve the same purpose today as they did in the O.T. in which that is what funded the activities of the Levites. The Temple was God's storehouse then and the LNTC is also considered the storehouse today. It is a body of believers following the leadership of God through an appointed man of God to do the will of God. The treasury is where the offerings were kept, today it is generally the church bank account. The principle of the people supporting the work of the Lord began in the O.T. and also continues in the N.T. and today in the Age of Grace. Paul covers the issue of regular giving in the N.T. - Malachi3:8-12 and I Cor. 16:1-2

Hope this clears things up like mud.

 

no Paul does no where teachs tithing. you might want to start a new post. but several times Paul tells us we are freed from the law of death which includes tithe.