.needs help

[Iconoclast]

I had posted from romans 8...that nothing can separate US from the love of God, to which you said

Completely irrelevant.

Interesting because you claim God has this love for all men......and yet NOTHING can separate us from this love.......Explain how you believe this despite what paul teaches , or in your theological JUDGEMENT IT IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT....LOL

The only thing completely irrelevant is your ideas that stand opposed to the truth.

Could you please quote whatever it is that you derived this conclusion from, lol.

it was Romans 8 take a look...it might illuminate you.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am just watching Brother Iconoclast beating you like you're the 'threshing floor'....

:thumbs::wavey::thumbs: I am hardly trying...just stating truth and posting what was posted in the correct sequence that he wanted...his posts speak for themselves

 

[Iconoclast]

So anytime people fix spelling mistakes in post they quote it is being dishonest? Wow I missed that one, must be in Hezekiah somewhere.
If this was a formal setting sure it would be expected that you would leave it as is and put sic in, but this is an internet forum not a college paper. Did he change what she said? Seems like a petty issue to get so worked up over.

He has nothing else so he looks to make a personal attack. His falsehood and agenda are being exposed. page after page he accused all of us and post by post he is being exposed . pay attention to when he says a verse is not relevant and yet,,,,each of them are quite relevant.

read earlier in the day how he said I would run away..:laugh::laugh:

Dc...you might need to re-think that one.....I will sleep soon as I will drive from Knoxville, through ala. through miss. through Louisiana , and into Texas tomorrow... so do not say I am hiding or anything else.....I am just getting started and will add many more scriptures and show your foul posting as time permits....it is not a rush,or a race....perhaps if you read some of the responses and look at the verses you might see something you missed:wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

In post 24 you offered this;

Colossians 1:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


God does not restrain His love from anyone, though He will, I believe, withdraw the opportunity of salvation when they reject the truth given them. This is true in Old Testament Economies, and even more true now that the Gospel of Christ is the revelation God is providing men through the Ministry of the Comforter.

That men can be brought to an understanding of the Gospel through this ministry and reject it without being regenerated seems all to clear in this passage...

Good verses ...that again do not prove your point...the word love is used of the love of the "saints for each other"...that is a good thing....it just does not help you.
vs 6 speaks of the gospel going worldwide...that also is great....God's elect are scattered worldwide! the great commission is worldwide...to gather in the elect children....

 

[Darrell C]

I am just watching Brother Iconoclast beating you like you're the 'threshing floor'....

You mean like he beat me in the last thread?

Where he, like you, refused to address anything?

Let's take a look at your participation in the thread, my little cheerleader. Gird your skirt about yourself....


Here's your first entry into the thread:

Darrell C, does God loves those in hell right now?

Darrell C, does God loves those in hell right now?

Also, does He Chasen those in hell? It says He chastens them He loves, youse knows?

And here is the response:

Darrell C, does God loves those in hell right now?

As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

So the question can be answered very easily with "No God does not love those in Hell right now."

Quote:
Originally Posted by convicted1 View Post
Also, does He Chasen those in hell? It says He chastens them He loves, youse knows?

As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

So the question can be answered very easily with "No God does not love those in Hell right now."




The fact is that Scripture is clear that God does not chasten those who are not His, but brings upon them His wrath, both in a temporal sense as well as an Eschatological sense.

Now your turn, and I will just offer one passage:


1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Does this, or does this not mean what it says?


God bless.

Then, incredibly, you do respond with more than a video...

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
As a matter of fact there is currently, to our knowledge...no-one in Hell right now.

Scripture please....

How about we start here, where Hell receives her first inhabitants we are told of:

Revelation 19:20

King James Version (KJV)

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Or here, where those now abiding in Hades are cast into Hell:


Revelation 20:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

How about we learn what Hell was created for:


Matthew 25:41

King James Version (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


Or here, where we learn that not even all demons are in Hell at this time:


Matthew 8:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?


Of course, I would suggest that you study the Greek concerning the Eternal Punishment of the wicked, but it seems you have not bothered even to consult the English, so why bother?

Now, will you answer my question, seeing I have now twice answered yours?

Quote:
So the question can be answered very easily with "No God does not love those in Hell right now."

Scripture please...[/QUOTE]

How can God love somebody somewhere they are not, lol.

Honestly, some people's kids.

Quote:
The fact is that Scripture is clear that God does not chasten those who are not His, but brings upon them His wrath, both in a temporal sense as well as an Eschatological sense.

God loves His sheep, period. Why? Because they belong to Jesus. Even as 'sheep having gone astray', He still loved them...

Kind of skipping over the fact that your ignorance has been displayed in the public record, aren't you?

This is about as Theologically astute as you and the rest of your pseudo-Calvinist friends reiteration that the "Only the saved are saved!"

And just like your buddies...you are irrelevant to the OP. You refuse to address any Scripture, points, or questions posed to you.

How does that make you feel my little cheerleader friend, who apparently spends more time perusing you-tube than he does in study of God's Word.

Quote:
Now your turn, and I will just offer one passage:


1 Timothy 2:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


Does this, or does this not mean what it says?


God bless.

Hmmph, didn't know you were a universalist....

Anyone who has seen even a smattering of my posting would not try to evade with such a moronic response.

Answer the question: is Scripture in error here? Is Paul in error?

Did he misspeak in saying that it is the will of God that all men be saved?

He doesn't say "Everyone is going to be saved, but that it is God's will that all are.

Kind of like another verse you guys wrest the meaning of to your own twisted and perverse meaning:


2 Peter 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


In your minds...God is willing that some, and according to the commentary of one fellow...that he is willing that many perish.

If God is willing that all men, even those who lived in the Fiji Islands, Hawaii, Alaska, American Samoa, centuries ago will be saved without ever knowing Jesus even existed. All refers to all of a particular good. 'All men' in that passage is referring to His sheep....

You need to begin in Chapter One of Romans, then go to Chapter Two. Then reread. Or, watch it again on you-tube, whatever floats your boat.

I have already addressed this once in this thread, but here it is again:


Romans 1:18-22

King James Version (KJV)

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,


Remind you of anyone?


Then in Chapter Two:


Romans 2:14-15

King James Version (KJV)

14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)


What that means is that prior to the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel the same manifestation of the Love of God was given unto all men in the revelation of God they had at that time, where we see Gentiles in obedience to God and the revelation they had, which was an internal revelation as well as that provided in Creation.

So among those even those who lived in the Fiji Islands, Hawaii, Alaska, American Samoa, centuries ago, there would have been the same provision that we have today, the revelation of God. It was not the revelation of the Mystery of the Gospel, because that was not revealed in those days, as it was the Hidden Wisdom of God preached by the Apostles.

Now surprise me. Address the post, and try to do it without another smokescreen.

God bless.


I can see why you stick with videos.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

So anytime people fix spelling mistakes in post they quote it is being dishonest?

Instead of just jumping in with your clique, try actually reading the post.

Wow I missed that one, must be in Hezekiah somewhere.

You need to work on your humor...also.

If this was a formal setting sure it would be expected that you would leave it as is and put sic in, but this is an internet forum not a college paper.

You missed the point, and to be honest, I expect the same level of integrity from you as I am seeing in the rest of these guys.

If you can honestly say that you think Iconoclast is being honest, then I am not going to be surprised.

Did he change what she said?

If you had read the post you would already know.

Why do you think the spelling was pointed out.

Do you really think spelling is that much of a matter to me?

Am I the one who pointed out your convent theology?

Seems like a petty issue to get so worked up over.

It isn't but the fact that someone can lie through his teeth and gain support from professing Christians...is reprehensible.

There is not way you can agree with the premise of the thread and maintain your integrity. No way at all.

The quoting is sloppy the theology worse, and you are not helping him by supporting him, just as you do not help anyone by not saying what is on your heart.

So go back and read the post and see if he quoted word for word as he claims.


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Finally, you do a good post.

Oh...never mind.


God bless.

Glad to see your keeping your sense of humor. notice we are going through verse by verse..post by post....not hiding or escaping.....have you commented on the Covenants yet as far as God's love is concerned , or do you intend to ignore them.....

 

[Darrell C]

He has nothing else so he looks to make a personal attack. His falsehood and agenda are being exposed. page after page he accused all of us and post by post he is being exposed . pay attention to when he says a verse is not relevant and yet,,,,each of them are quite relevant.

read earlier in the day how he said I would run away..:laugh::laugh:

Dc...you might need to re-think that one.....I will sleep soon as I will drive from Knoxville, through ala. through miss. through Louisiana , and into Texas tomorrow... so do not say I am hiding or anything else.....I am just getting started and will add many more scriptures and show your foul posting as time permits....it is not a rush,or a race....perhaps if you read some of the responses and look at the verses you might see something you missed:wavey:

Why let up now. It is clear that you will not respond to my posts. Maybe you need to start another thread.

You have no intention of responding, do you?


God bless.

 

[Iconoclast]

Instead of just jumping in with your clique, try actually reading the post.




You need to work on your humor...also.




You missed the point, and to be honest, I expect the same level of integrity from you as I am seeing in the rest of these guys.

If you can honestly say that you think Iconoclast is being honest, then I am not going to be surprised.




If you had read the post you would already know.

Why do you think the spelling was pointed out.

Do you really think spelling is that much of a matter to me?

Am I the one who pointed out your convent theology?



It isn't but the fact that someone can lie through his teeth and gain support from professing Christians...is reprehensible.

There is not way you can agree with the premise of the thread and maintain your integrity. No way at all.

The quoting is sloppy the theology worse, and you are not helping him by supporting him, just as you do not help anyone by not saying what is on your heart.

So go back and read the post and see if he quoted word for word as he claims.


God bless.

You getting worked up with blessed wife is not going to ease up on the fact that it is you who is dishonest as we are finding out.....care to address those questions offered to you so far? or are you going to blame everyone you can find:wavey::thumbs::wavey:

 

[Iconoclast]

Why let up now. It is clear that you will not respond to my posts. Maybe you need to start another thread.

You have no intention of responding, do you?


God bless.

Oh...I fully intend to respond to everything you have to offer. I type slow and it takes me a while to look up each one of your posts as you cried all day when I could only do some voice to text here and there....

No..i intend to post all of it as it is quite instructive.

You complained that I was not quoting you...now I am quoting everything and you complain I am not answering you.....trust me...I will answer you because I despise people who conduct themselves as you are doing here.

I will especially answer the verses you offer as they are not quite up to the task at hand. One by one the good verses you offer are shown to have nothing to do with the topic[you claim they do, but everyone sees it otherwise .

One of your problems is you are running out of personal attack material so when confronted by the scripture you are wilting and bewildered:thumbs:

hey DC...you can phone a friend, use commentaries or any link you want if you cannot deal with the interaction....you thought I would run away, hide, and everything else you spouted about all day, but no....we are going to work through all the posts.......I will post what I see and you post what you think and we will let the readers decide ...how about that???:thumbs:

this might have taken you by surprise....I will do more tomorrow night as I have to push hard tomorrow....I might squeeze in a bit, but after I deliver in texas I will have more time to respond on the return trip as I will not be under time pressure...

I am sure you will being looking forward to it...big man...!

I am posting small sections so you can respond to one or two ideas at a time...we will see how you avoided and attempted to sidestep several posts offered to you yesterday......we have plenty of time..we will get it done.

ps.. as a bonus; you said this in a recent post ..in green bolding....

2 Peter 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


In your minds...God is willing that some, and according to the commentary of one fellow...that he is willing that many perish.

I have told you two or three times now....the people peter is speaking of......not one will perish.....

Yes God is willing that multitudes of others will perish.....I will get to the mt 7 verse in the order it happened....later on.

 

[Darrell C]

Oh...I fully intend to respond to everything you have to offer. I type slow and it takes me a while to look up each one of your posts as you cried all day when I could only do some voice to text here and there....

No..i intend to post all of it as it is quite instructive.

You complained that I was not quoting you...now I am quoting everything and you complain I am not answering you.....trust me...I will answer you because I despise people who conduct themselves as you are doing here.

I will especially answer the verses you offer as they are not quite up to the task at hand. One by one the good verses you offer are shown to have nothing to do with the topic[you claim they do, but everyone sees it otheriwse .

One of your problems is you are running out of personal attack material so when confronted by the scripture you are wilting and bewildered:thumbs:

hey DC...you can phone a friend, use commentaries or any link you want if you cannot deal with the interaction....you thought I would run away, hide, and everything else you spouted about all day, but no....we are going to work through all the posts.......I will post what I see and you post what you think and we will let the readers decide ...how about that???:thumbs:

this might have taken you by surprise....I will do more tomorrow night as I have to push hard tomorrow....I might squeeze in a bit, but after I deliver in texas I will have more time to respond on the return trip as I will not be under time pressure...

I am sure you will being looking forward to it...big man...!

You keep making remarks like big boy and big man...tough guy, eh?

You have already run, and the more you post the more you prove that.

You refuse to answer anything, and to be honest, I am not going to cater to your foolishness.

That was the problem to begin with...you will not properly quote, you will not properly respond. All you have offered is an appeal to your buddies, and more of the same nonsense from the first thread, and you still won't admit that you missed the entire OP.

That has got to be embarrassing.

There is nothing surprising in this, except the fact you can't see your fear. Address the Scripture. All of it.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Now we move to post 17...you say-


Darrell C

Quote:
I see. Sorry, thought it was a question you sincerely wanted answered.

I am not sure why I thought that.

She did want it answered.

It was answered, and that has already been addressed...again.


And again we see your false claim of word for word quoting:

Originally Posted by Judith View Post

I am not interested in debating election verses free will.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Judith View Post
If only the elect can be saved then He did not die for every person.

Kind of missed that, didn't you?

Now we see the real intent of this thread...a second chance for Iconoclast. Well, you know what they say about repeating history.

She explained that to you three times and the last time told you that your responses DID NOT answer the question she wanted answered......you think you did, but you were wrong.

Not part of post 17.

And my answer can be seen in that thread as well as this one now.

You then say;

Quote:
On the contrary, those who hold to limited atonement cannot properly answer the question, except for those who do not want to acknowledge that God did in fact so love the world, not the Elect, but the world, that He sent His Son to die in their stead.

When I read this post I as one holding to limited atonement, Definite Atonement, Particular Redemption figured to answer it as it was clearly misguided.

You were successful...it was misguided.

Why was it misguided?

For the obvious fact that all sides can answer it.

The false premise does not exclude those of us that actually study from answering the question.

You say those who hold to limited atonement cannot answer the question....

Well, some of them can't. Thanks for being the poster child.

you were wrong on that.

Maybe, only slightly.

You certainly can't.

You can't even properly understand an OP.

But then again, neither did the OP.

In fact we can give the biblical answer ...you do not like it, you think it is wrong...but we can answer it quite thoroughly.

What Biblical answer?

Could you actually show that to me?

Quote:
I understand now, lol.

I am pretty sure you do not understand yet...that's why this thread will help you.

No, I understood then, and still do, that which escapes you. Should have titled the OP "This is my thread and I don't want anybody messing it up by bringing the Bible into it!"

If you say so. I thought it was a pretty answer though I might take issue with...

? I just kept it here so you do not complain that I removed your "words"

You did. But then I don't expect you to understand what a colon is (hint, not speaking about an internal organ.

Let me recreate the context for you (and another hint, I will use a colon right after the parentheses (let me know if you need to know what that is too)):

If you say so. I thought it was a pretty answer though I might take issue with...

Quote:
So while I believe that God does love every person, it would be wrong to assert that His love for one who rejects Him is identical to those called His own.

This should have read "pretty good," but pretty works too, it was a pretty good answer. But, as mentioned above, I take issue with his statement in the quote.

And again we see you slice and dice, because you have no interest in what others say.

You are once again shown to violate the premise of your own thread. That's a familiar theme for you guys, isn't it?

You said in this OP:

quoted word for word....posted by DC. I have no idea what this means.....I just tried to "quote it properly" so you would not get all twisted

Now let's see the entire post this stems from:

Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post

What would be embarrassing is if I put them all together and showed that not one thing you posted was on topic, or in any way helped your point of view. Most of your verses said nothing about God's love....much less where the bible says it is.

I want you to do this, actually, and we will see who is embarrassed.

Anyone reading this would not even know what I have said.

I have specifically asked you to show how what I have said is not on topic, which was actually denied by the OP.

Every post is not on topic, it addresses the OP:

Quote:
We know what the bible says in John 3:16, so does that mean that He loves every single person? If so, and only those who get saved are those who are predestined/chosen, how is this love manifest for the not predestined/chosen?

So you are now called to account for your boasting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post

What would be embarrassing is if I put them all together and showed that not one thing you posted was on topic, or in any way helped your point of view. Most of your verses said nothing about God's love....much less where the bible says it is.

Do this.


God bless.

And so far, it looks like you are doing exactly this, lol. Gosh, just didn't know who I was dealing with, did I.

I mean, every post you have done in this thread has been properly quoted, so no-one would mistake who said what. Word for word. You have shown how nothing I have said is on topic.

Your just a unique debater, Iconoclast, there is no denying that.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

By the way DC...your words are not inspired and I agree with Rippon who suggested you were long winded and really just repeat yourself.

Not sure why you would say this, I have never claimed inspiration in my writings.

And I have dealt with Rippon.

I'll be waiting for his responses in this thread, which I'll be waiting for along with yours.

...as it is clear that God loved the world as a whole, sent the Comforter to the world as a whole, died for the world as a whole...and all this before men were saved.

Now you offer your ideas....

I have backed all of this up with Scripture.

Scripture you claimed not to see.

completely ignoring the BIBLCIAL FACT that God is a Covenant keeping God

Let me show you the Covenant:


Isaiah 42:5-7

King James Version (KJV)

5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

and has an eternal plan and purpose that He has revealed to the church.Eph 3:9-11...

Can you show anything in Post #17 that warrants this statement?

In fact, anything I have ever said that warrants this statement?

What happened to word for word?

perhaps you could share your thoughts on this?

Just did. You could also try to actually read what you so sloppily quote. Quite a bit in there dealing with God's love for the world.

you have posted 2000 + times , you can show your best post on God's covenant or Covenants of promise . Who are they made with?

Again, you think you have aright to ask questions when you run away from all of mine?

Right.

In discussing the Covenant of Redemption...the idea of God's loyal love, His mercy is prominent.......do you have some thoughts on this as the topic of the OP is the saving love of God.....

Could you tell me the relevance of this rabbit trail?

Could you actually attempt to focus on the issues at hand?

I'm still waiting for all this Scripture you speak of that denies the Love of God for the world. Your theology states "For God love a few people, so He sent His only Begotten son, that whosoever was Elect might not perish, but have everlasting life."

You are a pseudo-Calvinist that denies the sovereignty of God, beginning first with His Word.

You have to change it to fit your corrupt version of theology.

Calvin would likely avoid letting people think you actually derived this garbage from anything he said. Paul is probably smacking Calvin in the back of the head right now.

Your last sentence speaks of before men were saved....could you take a minute to address what was in place before men were saved?

Again?

How about...


John 16:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;


Baby steps me boyo, baby steps.

When you can grasp the Comforter's Ministry to the lost, here called the world, as it is in many places, then you will see that what was in place was natural man, dead in trespasses and sins, alienated from God, and in need of enlightenment.

That love extends to prior to salvation in individuals and to suggest that God's love favors any particular person on a salvific level suggests respect of persons, which does not have a consistency with what Scripture tells us about God.


This is another false charge as no Cal believes that God is a respecter of persons

You do.

You caricaturize God's love and make it exclusive to only the Elect, rather than agreeing with Scripture.

Posted many verses you conveniently ignore...in both posts.

There is no debate.

There is a debate when you resist truth and suggest error.

There is no debate.

For that to take place you actually have to address what your antagonist says.

You have not done that.

We are saved because of God's love.

Not because we are Elect, but because we are loved.

It is not an either or...but both and.....Election is crucial as Salvation is all of God.

I don't see an either or scenario here:

1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


Now who are those who are not "...those that believe?"

1 John 4:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

This is a great verse...but it does not support your position at all. John writes this to believers.

It shows God's love extended to the lost before salvation. That the audience is the Church does not change that fact.

But I can understand not wanting to be interrupted by an opposing view, so I will bow out.

She wanted her question answered...you did not do it...

This is the answer, lol.

It is saying, "I see, you don't want anyone who opposes your false premise to participate. "I guess maybe the OP would rather not have what she wants to believe be challenged?

next case-

More like...basket case, lol.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I enter in in post 19...I answer Judith's question quite simply.

Yes, simple is an apt description.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C


Quote:
I see your inability forces you to appeal for support.

Not at all. It was the shortest post to quote to get started.

No, it was an appeal to your buddies because you can't stand on your own.

Not one of your buddies has yet to address the Scriptures posted

.

They have but you cannot grasp it you are to busy mocking....b

Actually, it takes time to address every poster in two threads. I don't have the luxury of your slothful habits in posting.

Because it matters to me that the public knows who said what.

You, on the other hand...can post hastily drafted nonsense that everyone here know does not keep the context of the discussion.

And I'll bet there is not one person here who will continue with your insistence that you are on topic, lol.

I hate to tell you this, Iconoclast, but friends like that are not really your friends. Enjoy it, though.

Of course, because you have run and hidden in another thread where you can distract from what was said there, that goes without saying.

This lame , pathetic excuse is being evaporated right now.....

It's the truth.

Explain why you evaded the Scripture presented to you in the other thread.

And it's made clearer in every post.

everything is being brought over in sequence....

Well, partially. You are still slicing and dicing.

no gaps...

Shown quite a few already. How many more before we are done?

nothing missed so stop with your shoddy excuse.

Not an excuse, just the facts.

You know it, I know it, and anyone with a shred of integrity knows it.

Everyone can put up both threads and compare.

That is correct, and I want to thank you for this thread because it illustrates what I said in the first post more clearly, and in a more defined way.

It is becoming obvious you will be the one who cannot respond meaningfully to the scripture....

What Scripture? lol

A verse out of Romans 5 that isn't even relevant?

as your frustration increases your personal attacks increase to no avail.

Not really, my sympathy for you grows, so I will likely curtail my tendency towards humor.

You see, when I deal with people so obviously hostile to Scripture, and especially when there is a gang of little rascals of them, it is heart breaking. TO think, so many posts to your account and you couldn't work your way through even a few simple verses. Must be shameful to have been exposed to Christian Theology for so long and still be so clueless. You really have my sincerest sympathy.

And before you protest, remember...you know you have avoided my points and questions as well a the Scripture provided to establish the basis of my views. But go talk to your buddies, they'll pat you on the back for a good job, and your cleverness. Doesn't really cover that knowledge your heart is speaking to you, does it?

We can see your dishonesty here, as I remember clearly her spelling on this.

There is a thing called spell check and auto correct...stop looking for excuses and loop holes

Her spelling was not the focal point...your dishonesty was.

It was her spelling that told me right away that you had not quoted it.

Quote:
Here we see your dishonesty in quoting.

Why lie? I am quoting everything....

Right. Just like your answering my points, and supplying this voluminous amount of Scripture I can't comprehend.

Quote:
See those little arrows, those are the links that one can click on to see who is actually doing a word for word response.

they can and those interested will.....

That is my hope, it is actually an interesting thread. Very revealing. I especially like it when your cheerleaders try to help you, lol.

you are evading the issue but I will not let you sneak away so easy.....

Actually, I am answering every off-topic evasive post one both threads.

You know it, I know it...they know it.

you wanted this....so take each post and give your sad tale

It's actually your sad tale, my friend, not mine.

I don't mind giving someone a chance to try to save face, but the fact that you are dishonest and it is so evident makes me think there is little sense in continuing this with you.

Liar.....

Ouch.

It just makes it worse when you have not shown me to have lied about anything.

you are now constructing an alibi and excuse because it is you who cannot back up your claims and as we proceed your woeful ignorance will be on display.....

The record will show, and any who read can judge. Not my concern. You are just one in a long list of antagonists openly hostile to God's Word.

You know it, I know it, and God knows it.

Well, maybe you really don't know it...

you wanted it , you got it....

It's okay with me.

I had planned on this being my last day, but I guess I'll have to stick around and see this through.

all day you said I was "running away" as I was driving from Pa.to Tennesee.....

Your running away didn't start today. As the posts in this thread will show your evasion began in the very first exchange.

I should have my head examined for catering to someone like you, but who knows, perhaps some good will come out of it.

by Monday I will be in east Texas...so stop your complaining....

I'm not the one giving out my travel plans.

Sitting in a truck, or bus, how cushy.

Me, I work in attics, under houses, and just sitting around all day seems pretty comfy.

If you want to hear some complaining, I can guarantee you I have more to offer than you do.

The only reason you will not continue is that the truth prevails and it is becoming clear who is dishonest.....there is more coming

The truth will prevail, regardless of whether you learn anything from it or not.

Can't wait until you get to the posts dealing with the Scripture I have presented. So far, nothing.

Not sure I want to deal with "queezation" you inspire.

Do you always borrow your antagonist's lines?

But then, your faith is definitely borrowed as well. can't find it in Scripture. lol

It is you who are dishonest and it will become abundantly clear as we continue.

Yep, it is me being dishonest oh great one. All must bow before the debate skills of someone who can't even quote properly. Again I will ask, is that due to sloth? Or can you not figure it out, even with specific instruction?

Or, is it because if you actually properly quoted your antagonist...you'd be faced with having to address them.

No matter, I'm here for you, my friend.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Thought I would also point out another dishonest quote:

Not sure I want to deal with "queezation" you inspire.

Because it is not designated, the reader would assume you are quoting me, but there is nowhere I said this.

Then you say...

It is you who are dishonest and it will become abundantly clear as we continue.

Right.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I give a brief answer in post 20...to you- I will post them again in case you cannot find them


I offer Amos 3 :
2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
and romans 8:
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



God set His love on Israel[not on every individual...but the elect within the nation}

God has placed His love in the new hearts of His elect.[where ever they are in the world...but not everyone in the world}

answer this;

The scripture explains God's love as In Christ and for the elect,,,it says NOTHING can separate US from the love of God...and yet your teaching says that multitudes do get separated from it33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth

Again your dishonesty, or sloth, is evident. You post this as Post #20, when in fact this...

Originally Posted by Darrell C
[QUOTE
On the contrary, those who hold to limited atonement cannot properly answer the question,

They only can answer the question...You cannot/

Quote:
except for those who do not want to acknowledge that God did in fact so love the world, not the Elect, but the world,

Only the elect are saved...the whole world does not get saved.

Quote:
that He sent His Son to die in their stead.

As the atonement was perfect and accomplished redemption in the stead of its objects , o0nly the elect could be it's objects as they alone are saved






..

Quote:
as it is clear that God loved the world as a whole, sent the Comforter to the world as a whole, died for the world as a whole...and all this before men were saved. That love extends to prior to salvation in individuals and to suggest that God's love favors any particular person on a salvific level suggests respect of persons, which does not have a consistency with what Scripture tells us about God.

Well now...scripture suggests otherwise;
2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Quote:

The scripture explains God's love as In Christ and for the elect,,,it says NOTHING can separate US from the love of God...and yet your teaching says that multitudes do get separated from it33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

There is no debate.

Only when you miss the truth ...then there is.

Quote:
We are saved because of God's love.

Not because we are Elect, but because we are loved.

Now class, has Iconoclast represented his antagonist with honesty here?

Does Iconoclast think he has earned the right to ask anyone questions?

I agree, he hasn't, so we will let Iconoclast keep his questions for after school.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You answer here; in post 24

I have answered the question: God manifested and manifests His love for the world as a whole through taking upon Himself the form of man and dying to present the opportunity for salvation to every man, which He is currently doing through the Ministry of the Comforter.

Not one person will stand before God and say "But...you didn't tell me!"

God manifests this same love through the internal witness given to every man and woman, as well as through the testimony of Creation.[/QUOTE]

The witness of conscience and creation let men know there is a God and leaves them without excuse.....It does not speak about the saving love of God as you claim.

That is why I have offered verse after verse that does.


1 Timothy 4:9-11

King James Version (KJV)

9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

11 These things command and teach.


Try that one on for size...again.

I know of no missionary who goes into the jungle and finds Christians already trusting the Lord. they know there is a God, yes...so they create idols that are dead;

So those who did not receive the revelation of God were not benefitting from the love of God bestowed on the world?

Be careful, you are going to ruin your record and actually stray near the issue...



Romans 1:20-21

King James Version (KJV)

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


How is it that they knew God...but were kept in the dark about His love? Do you have the atheist view that God did not express love to unbelievers in the Old Testament?

What motivated God to redeem Israel...who were not born again believers?

Who fell in the wilderness because they were unbelievers and without faith?

God redeemed them from bondage to Egypt just...because?


How about this man...


Mark 10:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

...was he a born again believer, eternally indwelt by God?

Was he elect?

Psalm 115 King James Version (KJV)

115 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth's sake.

2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Let's take a look at some people with idols:


Exodus 32:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.

4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the Lord.


How does that compare with...


Romans 1:21-24

King James Version (KJV)

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


Yet God loved Israel. Deny it. Were they all Elect?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

In the same post...you say;

Quote:
Because He is actually...not willing that any should perish, even as we are told in His Word.

But looking at the actual text...it does not say that at all as we have seen...It said God is longsuffering to usward,not willing that {any of them] perish , but that all come to repentance. Iadded the emphasis because it is clearly shown in the passage that is the teaching....I spoke on this as we will see , but you tried to shrug it off.....be patient we will see this soon.

You are not going to erase the clear statement that cannot be denied:


2 Peter 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It only refers to the Elect?

So His promise was...?

His longsuffering was for...?

As shown in the other thread, lol, the longsuffering of God is so the Lost can come to salvation:


2 Peter 3:9-13

King James Version (KJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Now who again is it that the Lord is showing patience to?

Well the Elect only, of course. They are the center of the universe...lol.

Quote:
That is not what is in view. Nobody is saying everyone gets saved, we are looking at God's love and whether it is bestowed only on the Elect, or if it is bestowed upon all men.

The savingly love of God does not go to all men.

Oh now it is the savingly love of God.

Sorry, but that OP never changed, and it didn't change in this thread:

We know what the bible says in John 3:16, so does that mean that He loves every single person? If so, and only those who get saved are those who are predestined/chosen, how is this love manifest for the not predestined/chosen?

You constantly err insisting on a post-salvific context, completely missing the OPs questions.

That is what is in dispute.

In a manner of speaking, yes.

Though you do not see your error there either, lol. How many times has the question been pointed out?

Now try to look at men before they are saved. All men are born separated from God, lost, and natural.

I agree as eph 2 declares this...even as others.

You don't agree, because you see an Arminian value quality in the Elect that no man possesses. Because you are blind to the basics, and trying to understand Election, you fail miserably and fall into an Arminian error which has a quality that Scripture denies.

Guess it wouldn't do any good to post a verse speaking about all falling short either.

None righteous.

I am sure you can tell me how the Elect bypass the need for the Convicting Ministry of the Holy Spirit, expressly taught by Christ as being sent to convict unbelievers of sin. Something else repeatedly shown you...in both threads.


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

You getting worked up with blessed wife is not going to ease up on the fact that it is you who is dishonest as we are finding out.....care to address those questions offered to you so far? or are you going to blame everyone you can find:wavey::thumbs::wavey:

Don't you worry about her, she has more backbone than you and you fellow cheerleaders combined.

And your asking for me to respond is hollow, my friend. You have quite a bit of Scripture you have left unanswered. Still working on it, so bear with me.

Just one of me, a number of you.


God bless.