Featured New Birth Contrasts and Consequences

Not my flock Bro., it is the Lords flock. Im just an instrument.

 

Wow that's a tough call. But my mom always taught me not to guess....but to know. So if you are asking then here would be my answer.....Do an Exploratory (of both the geographic area & the person...including a background check of the person). More importantly, is there truly a void area in my region that needs attention ....and then lastly, if there is then what do we as the "CHURCH" to address the matter. Forget about the messenger, have it checked out. That's what I would do!

What I would not do is tell the person that, Hey, in the past we tried this & it didnt work, so just be content with our gathering place....THAT'S DEFINITELY WHAT I WOULD NOT DO.



Excuse me, what multitudes are you referring to.....these churches are loosing people. Maybe you should ask the question as to why that is.[/QUOTE]

 

Was Abraham, because he was willing to offer up his son, and believed God could raise him from the dead to fulfill His Promise...righteous from an eternal perspective?

Can the imputed righteousness be equated to the righteousness which comes from the Faith of Jesus Christ?

Most will say yes. The answer is...

...no.

Kind of hard for a man who has not had his sin atoned for to be considered righteous in the Eternal Perspective.

That does not, however, mean that the imputation of righteousness through faith is meaningless, or not recognized by God.

That's what Grace is all about.

God demanded, "Be ye holy, for I am Holy." Did He expect men to obtain to a perfect standard which is required?

No. And that is why we call it Grace.

The only thing I would ask is where do we see "There is none righteous, no, not one"...given exceptions? If there are those in that day that were righteous, that were not under sin...

...who were they?

The following, to clarify context of what I am addressing, suggests that the "regenerate of the Old Testament" were not the things listed. I will re-post it in its original format:

Yes. That is the condition of the Old Testament Saint:


Ephesians 2:1

King James Version (KJV)


2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


Before anyone offers the argument, "But this is speaking about Gentiles," let me remind them that...


Romans 3:9

King James Version (KJV)

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;


Romans 5:8

King James Version (KJV)

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


Romans 1:16

King James Version (KJV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.



Ephesians 2:13-18

King James Version (KJV)


13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.


...both Jew and Gentile are made that which they were not prior to the Cross.


Continued...

 

It is your flock if you are assuming a leadership position. You have condemned the churches in your area and deemed them to be without the Spirit of God. The corollary, testified to by your own statement, is that you are led of God to righteous anger at the deadness of everyone in your area except you and those who congregate with you.

But okay, if you disavow that you are taking the lead, and it is God Who is leading your course of action...I'm not going to argue that. Perhaps you are.

But back to the question posed to you. Please answer.


God bless.

 

Think about this: it implies, since Gentiles are the contextual focus, that Israel was regenerate, or in other words, possessed the Life of God.

Scripture does not support that.

In fact Scripture makes it very clear that Life and Righteousness was not obtained through the Law (which is how Jews are made distinct from Gentiles), not that it could not have effected it, but that no man kept the Law, and could not. The Law served to show man his sin, and this is seen to occur for both Jew and Gentile, both under Law, and without the Law. We know from the Testimony of Scripture that there were men and women of faith that were both Gentile as well as of Israel.

Both Jew and Gentile were alienated from the Life of God, and it is when God make of the twain one man that both are made alive in Christ.

The Light of the World came at a specific moment in History.

That is just basic to our understanding of Christ.

Prophecy makes it very clear that all men sat in darkness. Christ came to be...

...the Light of the World.

Men were given instruction a to what was clean, and what was not.

Cornelius is deemed "cleansed" prior to receiving the Spirit of God, or in other words...while he was unregenerate.

The disciples were "clean" through the Word spoken by Christ unto them, but neither had they received the Promise of the Father, that is...the Eternal Indwelling of God.

That does not mean that all unregenerate men were given over unto all uncleanness. Even among the Gentiles that did not have the Law, we see the works of the Law performed by them. IT was writtne on their hearts.

It is when unregenerate men, who had light, rejected that light, that revelation from God...that God gave/gives them over to fulfill the lusts of their hearts:


Romans 1:21-28

King James Version (KJV)


21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


God will judge every man according to their response to the light, the revelation of Himself that He has given them.

No man will stand before Christ and say "...I didn't know, you didn't tell me."


Continued...

 

No unregenerate can please God?

God was pleased with Cornelius who was a Proselyte to Judaism.

Was Cornelius born again by keeping the Law?

Let's put the proof-text back in its context:


Romans 8:8-10

King James Version (KJV)


8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.


What does it mean not to be "in the flesh?" We are told...by being indwelt by God. Christ makes it clear that this indwelling, made distinct from the ministry of the Spirit in the day of Christ's ministry (and prior) in which the Holy Ghost came upon men, and was "with them (as opposed to in them)," was a future event in John 14. He makes it clear (John 14-16; John 7:38-39) that the Comforter, Who is the Promised Spirit, would not come until after He was glorified and returned to Heaven. We see that again reiterated in Acts 1:4-5. We see it fulfilled in Acts 2. We see it reiterated in the Epistles.

And here...


Acts 10:44-45

King James Version (KJV)

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.


...we see Cornelius receive the Spirit of God.

It was then that the Spirit of God dwelt in Cornelius, fulfilling Romans 8:8-10.

It's just a basic principle that God recognizes...faith.


Continued...

 

This I agree with completely, though we do recognize God's grace bestowed upon sinners until Christ came to die in their stead. The Writer of Hebrews, thus the Spirit of God, teaches that the faithful of the Old Testament did not receive the promises, and were not made complete in regards to Redemption. When they died, they did not, as we, go into the presence of God in Heaven, but had to await Atonement and Reconciliation which is only accomplished by the Finished Work of Christ.

This does not deprive the Old Testament Saint of a relationship with God, or deny the Ministry previously performed by the Holy Ghost, which was, because it dealt with the hearts of men, an internal ministry among men. But that does not nullify Christ's teaching that the Spirit of God would Minister among men differently after His death,burial, Resurrection, Glorification, and Ascension.

Agreed. And when we understand this was accomplished through the Cross of Christ, we will begin to see the magnitude of what God has done. This will, I believe, strengthen the faith of the believer, because he/she can understand salvation is truly orchestrated by Sovereign God alone. While men sought to reach the standard set by Abraham under the Law, we can not only to aspire to have as our goal the standard of the Risen Savior, we can be confident, because He has made His abode with us, that He will fulfill His promise, and we shall keep His statutes and walk in His judgments.


Continued...

 

Actually, what Christ taught was the same thing He taught when He said "Except a man believe on me..."

So who believed on the Risen Savior before the Cross, or even before Pentecost?

Not the disciples:


Mark 16:9-13

King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


Now if the testimony of Scripture and Christ, which makes it clear that not even the disciples of Christ believed in the Resurrection of Christ at that point, cannot convince men...

...I don't know what will.

To maintain the error of Regeneration prior to the Cross and Pentecost will necessitate a denial of what Christ affirms here...

...they did not believe Christ had Risen from the dead.

The Angels ask a simple question "...Why seek ye the living among the dead?"

If the disciples believed not, why would we think Nicodemus did, or could, who shows he has no clue as to what Christ is teaching, and is clearly carnal in his understanding.


Continued...

 

On the contrary, there is the Kingdom of God which is the universal reign of God in the hearts of the faithful, believers; there is the physical Kingdom of Israel created by God in the Old Testament; there is the Retored Kingdom of God that will be present in the Millennial Kingdom; there is the Eternal Kingdom which we usually call the Eternal State, which will be in the new heavens and earth.

The first has always existed in the hearts of those of faith, but we do not equate these Kingdoms as being the same.

Cornelius, for example, did not belong to the kingdom of Satan, but, neither was he a member of that Kingdom spoken of here:


Matthew 11:11

King James Version (KJV)

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.


Christ distinguishes between the Ages here. When one can identify the Kingdom that the least of would be greater than John the Baptist, then one will be well on their way to understanding the unique creation that is Christ's Church.

Agreed.

Agreed, for the most part.

The assumption that the unregenerate are completely separate from the Ministry of God in their lives nullifies Christ's teaching that the Comforter would do just that.

Minister in the lives of those who believe not on Jesus Christ.

And because assumptions like these are made, there is a condemnation of he lost which stands in direct opposition to the Will of God in regards to mankind, and lacks the very compassion which made it possible for God to reconcile men unto Himself through Jesus Christ. Christ taught us about mercy in two ways, explicitly, and implicitly...on the Cross. In the Incarnation itself.


God bless.

 

Before I answer you anything, you come down quite hard on me as condemning churches for not having the Spirit of God. I never said that....and if you think I have then produce my comment.

 

This is just from the first two pages:

Will you answer the question now?


God bless.

 

Well, this holds promise. Would you mind showing what is not circular reasoning?


God bless.

 

Congratulations. I will remind you that you did not operate out of New Jersey.

 

So you imply that saying Mother Ship is declaring disdain?!? Really!!!