New Birth vs. Soul Salvation

[Twiceborn]

Does anyone else here believe that there is a difference between being born again and the salvation of the soul?

James 1:18-21 KJV
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

I see them as two separate aspects of our salvation. Like the difference between being born again and the redemption of our bodies. The new birth secures our spiritual "standing" whereas the salvation of our souls relates to our soul "state" and the redemption of our bodies relates to our physical "state". We can experience soul salvation in this life to varying degrees, but our souls are ultimately saved when delivered from our corrupt bodies. What are your thoughts?

 

[Twiceborn]

Here's another example of soul salvation:

James 5:19-20 KJV
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

 

[Twiceborn]

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Notice here that their souls were saved by water. If this was talking about their physical lives wouldn't it say that they were saved by the ark? The states of their souls were saved by the removal of the wickedness that had previously surrounded them.

 

[Twiceborn]

Hebrews 13:17 KJV
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

They watch for our souls because we are capable of drawing back. We can "err from the truth" and lose our soul salvation (in this current state). This is mentioned a couple chapters earlier:

Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[37818]

The only place one can separate the salvation of the soul from being born again, is if one dies as a little child prior to the need to become again a little child in one's standing with God. Matthew 18:2-3, ". . . Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. . . ." ". . . not . . ." meaning not in any way. The Greek ". . . ου μη . . . ."
. . . .

 

[Yeshua1]

Does anyone else here believe that there is a difference between being born again and the salvation of the soul?

James 1:18-21 KJV
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

I see them as two separate aspects of our salvation. Like the difference between being born again and the redemption of our bodies. The new birth secures our spiritual "standing" whereas the salvation of our souls relates to our soul "state" and the redemption of our bodies relates to our physical "state". We can experience soul salvation in this life to varying degrees, but our souls are ultimately saved when delivered from our corrupt bodies. What are your thoughts?

Becoming born from above means soul has now been saved....

 

[canadyjd]

No. A human being is saved whole (body and spirit). The words soul and spirit are used interchangeably at times and at other times “soul” refers to whole person (physical and spiritual).

There is one salvation.

Peace to you

 

[Twiceborn]

The only place one can separate the salvation of the soul from being born again, is if one dies as a little child prior to the need to become again a little child in one's standing with God. Matthew 18:2-3, ". . . Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. . . ." ". . . not . . ." meaning not in any way. The Greek ". . . ου μη . . . ."
. . . .

What about the separation of the two in James 1:18-21?

 

[Van]

Hi Twiceborn,

Vague words or phrases leave the door open to interpretation which may be spot on, or mistaken.
In James 1:21 does the word translated "soul" refer to our spiritual essence? Our human spirit with its core attributes, our soul?

To back up a bit, my view is we are "made sinner" thus at conception we are spiritually unholy, thus separated from our holy God. The term "dead in our sins" refers to being separated and being unable to earn or merit or deserve salvation. Spiritual Salvation reunites us with God, so we are made spiritually alive, together with Christ. We start out spiritually in the realm of darkness, and when God transfers us spiritually into Christ, we are (1) alive rather than dead, (2) in Christ rather than outside of Christ, (3) born anew alive rather than dead, (4) made righteous rather than made sinners, (5) forgiven and justified by the washing of regeneration or rebirth and the circumcision of Christ. But we are still embodied with our corrupt flesh. Thus we look eagerly forward to our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Therefore, in my view, we are saved spiritually and predestined to be saved physically at Christ's second coming and no part of that package can be affected because we are kept by the power of God.

 

[37818]

What about the separation of the two in James 1:18-21?

". . . Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. . . ."

Little children too young to understand and believe are safe in Christ for a time. The reason Jesus taught, ". . . Allow the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ." -- Mark 10:14-15.
To Nicodemus,
". . . Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? . . ." -- John 3:3-4.
Jesus explained we need to be born of God's Spirit, John 3:5-6.

So I am not understanding what you are asking.

 

[MartyF]

Does anyone else here believe that there is a difference between being born again and the salvation of the soul?

James 1:18-21 KJV
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

I see them as two separate aspects of our salvation. Like the difference between being born again and the redemption of our bodies. The new birth secures our spiritual "standing" whereas the salvation of our souls relates to our soul "state" and the redemption of our bodies relates to our physical "state". We can experience soul salvation in this life to varying degrees, but our souls are ultimately saved when delivered from our corrupt bodies. What are your thoughts?

Avoid Gnosticism. Soul doesn’t mean what you think it does.

 

[Twiceborn]

Avoid Gnosticism. Soul doesn’t mean what you think it does.

The greek word for "soul" in James 1:21 is translated in the KJV many times as "life" and also as "heart" and "mind". This is what I believe "soul" means. It's our non-physical being. It's my "soul" that will be "present with the Lord" as soon as it is "absent from the body".

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[Twiceborn]

Hi Twiceborn,

Vague words or phrases leave the door open to interpretation which may be spot on, or mistaken.
In James 1:21 does the word translated "soul" refer to our spiritual essence? Our human spirit with its core attributes, our soul?

To back up a bit, my view is we are "made sinner" thus at conception we are spiritually unholy, thus separated from our holy God. The term "dead in our sins" refers to being separated and being unable to earn or merit or deserve salvation. Spiritual Salvation reunites us with God, so we are made spiritually alive, together with Christ. We start out spiritually in the realm of darkness, and when God transfers us spiritually into Christ, we are (1) alive rather than dead, (2) in Christ rather than outside of Christ, (3) born anew alive rather than dead, (4) made righteous rather than made sinners, (5) forgiven and justified by the washing of regeneration or rebirth and the circumcision of Christ. But we are still embodied with our corrupt flesh. Thus we look eagerly forward to our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

Therefore, in my view, we are saved spiritually and predestined to be saved physically at Christ's second coming and no part of that package can be affected because we are kept by the power of God.

Van, I can agree with you 100% on this. However, I believe that there is another level as well. It's the difference between our standing and our state. For instance, there's a sense in which nothing can separate from the love of God which is in Christ (Romans 8:38-39). But also a sense that we have to abide in Christ and keep ourselves in God's love (John 15:10, Jude 1:21).

I believe that our spiritual standing is secured in the second birth. But I believe that soul salvation refers to the state of our soul.

 

[37818]

Avoid Gnosticism. Soul doesn’t mean what you think it does.

Well, yes and no. Jesus taught killing the body does not kill the soul. But the soul with the body will be destroyed in Hell, we identify as the second death. Matthew 10:28. And according to Isaiah 53:10-12, Christ's soul died on the cross. And according to John's account that death was completed before Jesus physically died on the cross. John 19:28. And according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27, His soul lived, and was not dead.

 

[Twiceborn]

Well, yes and no. Jesus taught killing the body does not kill the soul. But the soul with the body will be destroyed in Hell, we identify as the second death. Matthew 10:28. And according to Isaiah 53:10-12, Christ's soul died on the cross. And according to John's account that death was completed before Jesus physically died on the cross. John 19:28. And according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27, His soul lived, and was not dead.

I have to disagree with you here brother. I don't believe that Christ's soul died. I believe that He gave His life as an offering, but His life didn't end, it just transitioned. Also, I believe that John was referring to the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophesies regarding Christ's death when He said that "all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled".

 

[37818]

Idon't believe that Christ's soul died.

Against annihilationism Christ in His soul died while He was paying for our sins with His shed blood. And while His soul was dead on the cross He was conscious, Psalms 22:1; Psalms 22:6. Demonstrates that dead souls of the lost are not annihilated. Matthew 10:28, ". . . fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. . . ."

". . . thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, . . ." -- Isaiah 53:10.
". . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . ." -- Isaiah 53:12.

 

[Van]

Van, I can agree with you 100% on this. However, I believe that there is another level as well. It's the difference between our standing and our state. For instance, there's a sense in which nothing can separate from the love of God which is in Christ (Romans 8:38-39). But also a sense that we have to abide in Christ and keep ourselves in God's love (John 15:10, Jude 1:21).

I believe that our spiritual standing is secured in the second birth. But I believe that soul salvation refers to the state of our soul.

I fear we do not agree 100%. Are we to strive to "abide in Christ" meaning to following His teachings, and serve Him? Yes. But what is the loss if we fall short of that mark? Loss of rewards? Yes. Loss of our inheritance? Nope.

 

[Twiceborn]

I fear we do not agree 100%. Are we to strive to "abide in Christ" meaning to following His teachings, and serve Him? Yes. But what is the loss if we fall short of that mark? Loss of rewards? Yes. Loss of our inheritance? Nope.

We are on the same page on this. The loss if we fall short is not the loss of our inheritance, it's the loss of the "earnest" of our inheritance. Being born again secures our inheritance in Christ. However, I don't believe that the concept of "soul salvation" in the new testament is the same as the concept of the second birth.

Another way to put it would be that being born again is the creation of the new man, and soul salvation is the putting off of the the old man and putting on the new man. It's claiming what we already have.

 

[Craig Betts]

No. A human being is saved whole (body and spirit). The words soul and spirit are used interchangeably at times and at other times “soul” refers to whole person (physical and spiritual).

There is one salvation.

Peace to you

Agreed.

 

[agedman]

A few random thoughts:

The Scriptures teach that the soul is that which is the life of a person, and that the body is frail at best - replaced with eternal.

As another poster stated the word in English is often referring to the combined life and body.

Paul in declaring that in Corinthians about the body destroyed that the soul be saved, does not pertain to salvation but to preservation (imo) of the eternal life granted by the Father .

Christ is the life giving spirit. Adam was the life giving soul. Humans by their human estate have human life, but the Spirit of life from Christ is the gift of God.

Now, I'm not going into trying to separate the soul and spirit of Christ. That is only for the Scriptures to accomplish. And I'm not certain that our understanding is not but fancy when it comes to understanding the depth of the cost to reconcile God to His own.

I do know that too often the believers do great damage to their soul (life) by living in the flesh and not feeding appropriately upon the life giving Spirit. All manner of accepting that which ungodly twists the mind, places the physical in jeopardy, and distorts the perspectives.

Back in the day, the term was living "soulish" and it was not a term one wanted applied to their manner of living.

The term "living soul" in the Scriptures does not always mean eternal soul. For example when the angel pours out the bowl into the sea, the Scriptures state "every living soul died." That isn't just humans, but all life of the sea.

"The soul that sins shall surely die" is as true today as the day spoken. For all have sinned, and therefore all die.