New Covenant

[steaver]

I am placing this subject in the Calvinism & Arminianism section because although there are many Non-Cals that believe there is nothing New with the change of heart between the Old and the New, all Cals believe there is nothing New with the change of heart between the Old and the New.

A couple of us here see the New Heart beginning with the glorification of Jesus Christ after His resurrection (as taught in John 7 and demonstrated when Thomas believed). We have been called heretics for holding to such a doctrine although we are not alone, even scholars have said as much, holding this view is nothing new and strange.

The question for those who oppose the doctrine of the New Covenant including the New Heart is....

What does God mean when He says in this New Covenant He will put His laws in their hearts?

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jer 31:31-32):

The following is from Chuck Smith Commentary available for free viewing on BlueletterBible.com.

"I'm going to make a new covenant. Not like the covenant that I made.

Now what was the covenant that He made with them? When they came out of Egypt, they came to mount Sinai and there God gave them the law and God said when He gave them the law, "He that doeth these, he that liveth by these things and doeth them shall be My people." So the covenant that God made with them first was a covenant that was predicated upon their obedience to that law. Now they broke that covenant, God said. They didn't obey the law. God gave to them the Ten Commandments; they broke them. They did not keep them. So God said, "I'm going to make a new covenant with them. In that day I'll make a new covenant. Not like the old covenant that was predicated upon their obedience and their faithfulness to obey the law. And I will be their God and they will be My people, and so forth, if they live by these things and do these things."

But what is the new covenant?

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people (Jer 31:33).

That is, I will give them a change of attitude within. I will give them a change of heart. It will not be an outward law that is forcing my obedience, but now it is a new covenant where God writes His law in my heart by creating in me a new nature. Now that's, of course, exactly what God has done for us. That's what Christianity is all about. Jesus said, "You've got to be born again. You were born of the flesh, but you've got to be born of the Spirit. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Don't marvel that I say you've got to be born again" (John 3:3,6-7). You need to have this new nature. And when you have this new nature, God then writes His law in your heart. You have a whole new desire, a whole new... You have such a change. It's from within and the desire for the things of the Lord as He writes His law upon my heart. And this new covenant that God has established with us through Jesus Christ, it's the same thing-the change of nature. Born again by the Spirit, a new nature after Christ Jesus.

And it is so important that we be born again, because we cannot keep that first covenant that God established. The law, we've all broken it. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So God has established this new covenant. The old covenant was established upon man's faithfulness to obey the law. The new covenant is established upon God's faithfulness to justify us by our faith in Jesus Christ. The old covenant failed because it was predicated upon man. The new covenant will stand because it is predicated upon God's work.

And so we have this new covenant that God has established with us and also will establish with the house of Israel in that day. They are still trying to relate to God under the old covenant, but not completely. They no longer have any sacrifice, which was required of God to put away their sins. And so they're still seeking to relate to God outside of the covenant through Jesus Christ whereby our sins are taken away."

Now the challenge for the bible student is to explain how the New Covenant's changing of the heart is actually nothing New, if it so be you believe being born of God is nothing New from the Old covenant to the New, even though the Word speaks specifically of the heart being changed as part of the New.

 

[1689Dave]

Here is a synopsis of my understanding of the New Covenant as it relates to the Old Covenant and before.

Believers of all-time had the loving condition of the heart God promised in the New Covenant. He gave the Old Covenant to the unregenerate who he threatened with death for disobedience and promised material rewards for obedience.

These thought they were good for not letting themselves steal even though they wanted to. But the believers like Job, Abel and Abraham did not want to steal because they were born again.

So the believers always kept the Ten Commandments by the Two Great Commandments (law) written in their hearts. But the unbelievers could not keep that law by keeping the Ten Commandments. They did not have the love for God and other people provided in the new birth.

When God abolished the Ten Commandments (Old Covenant) on the cross, only the believers remained. He "broke off" the unbelievers from Israel. He added believing gentiles in their place.

Today we use the Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary. But the Two Great Commandments calling for love of God and others remains the backbone of NT ethics. Today instead of not stealing, we give. Instead of not murdering our enemies, we bless them and contribute to their wellbeing...etc., etc.

In the OT, the Holy Spirit was with believers. Since Pentecost, he is in believers. And this makes up the Kingdom of God Jesus rules from heavenly Jerusalem on David’s throne.

 

[steaver]

In the OT, the Holy Spirit was with believers. Since Pentecost, he is in believers.

This is the sticking point. The Holy Spirit in the believer is "born again". You are correct that this came after Jesus Christ was glorified (John 7). So the OT believers could not have been born again. The scripture states that having the new heart would be new covenant. So what the Bible student would need to explain is how the new heart ( I will put my Law in their hearts) is not anything new at all as God said it was.

 

[Covenanter]

Look up heart circumci*

Also - Acts 7:51 ‘You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: you always resist the Holy Spirit! 52 Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him – 53 you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it.’

And Hebrews 11

 

[1689Dave]

This is the sticking point. The Holy Spirit in the believer is "born again". You are correct that this came after Jesus Christ was glorified (John 7). So the OT believers could not have been born again. The scripture states that having the new heart would be new covenant. So what the Bible student would need to explain is how the new heart ( I will put my Law in their hearts) is not anything new at all as God said it was.

Notice the Apostles were born again before Pentecost. At Pentecost they received the indwelling or baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since Pentecost both the New Birth and the Baptism are the normal experience for all believers.

Remember, Paul says

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,” (Galatians 5:22)

And Hebrews 11 lists many OT saints, including Abraham who were faithful.

 

[kyredneck]

Believers of all-time had the loving condition of the heart God promised in the New Covenant. He gave the Old Covenant to the unregenerate who he threatened with death for disobedience and promised material rewards for obedience.

These thought they were good for not letting themselves steal even though they wanted to. But the believers like Job, Abel and Abraham did not want to steal because they were born again.

99% agree!

born again

born again

You all understand that in the Greek this is 'born from above', right? As in:

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

 

[1689Dave]

99% agree!





You all understand that in the Greek this is 'born from above', right? As in:

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother. Gal 4

I think the meaning is the same to any who make a practice of reading their bibles. But "born from above" doesn't sync with Nicodemus' reaction about re-entering his mother's womb to be born again.

 

[kyredneck]

But "born from above" doesn't sync with Nicodemus' reaction about re-entering his mother's womb to be born again.

Nicodemus's non-enlightenment should not affect the correct rendering of Christ's intent with the word 'anothen' here. Anothen ( from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God, from the first, from the beginning, from the very first, anew, over again) can mean 'anew' or 'over again', but that's not what Christ meant, thus His further explanation in the next verse:

5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. Jn 1 YLT

Christ wasn't speaking of an earthly physical birth which Nicodemus wrongly perceived, He was speaking of a spiritual birth FROM ABOVE.

"Born from above" syncs with a large amount of other scripture, old and new, and is consistent with the apostle John's (James also) intended use of the word anothen:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' (YLT)
7 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; (YLT)
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly , and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. Jn 3

11 Jesus answered , Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout . Jn 19

As is the case with James:

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Ja 1

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure , then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Ja 3

YLT conveys a 'celestial motif' in the dialogue (yea, the entire chapter) between Christ and Nicodemus that the rendering 'born again' misses:

2 this one came unto him by night, and said to him, `Rabbi, we have known that from God thou hast come -- a teacher, for no one these signs is able to do that thou dost, if God may not be with him.`
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.`
27 John answered and said, `A man is not able to receive anything, if it may not have been given him from the heaven
31 he who from above is coming is above all; he who is from the earth, from the earth he is, and from the earth he speaketh; he who from the heaven is coming is above all. Jn 3 YLT

 

[SovereignGrace]

The YLT is one of only a few(maybe the only one?) that uses ‘born from above’, but I think that’s a really good translation of John 3:3.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am placing this subject in the Calvinism & Arminianism section because although there are many Non-Cals that believe there is nothing New with the change of heart between the Old and the New, all Cals believe there is nothing New with the change of heart between the Old and the New.

A couple of us here see the New Heart beginning with the glorification of Jesus Christ after His resurrection (as taught in John 7 and demonstrated when Thomas believed). We have been called heretics for holding to such a doctrine although we are not alone, even scholars have said as much, holding this view is nothing new and strange.

The question for those who oppose the doctrine of the New Covenant including the New Heart is....

What does God mean when He says in this New Covenant He will put His laws in their hearts?

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband unto them, saith the LORD. But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jer 31:31-32):

The following is from Chuck Smith Commentary available for free viewing on BlueletterBible.com.

"I'm going to make a new covenant. Not like the covenant that I made.

Now what was the covenant that He made with them? When they came out of Egypt, they came to mount Sinai and there God gave them the law and God said when He gave them the law, "He that doeth these, he that liveth by these things and doeth them shall be My people." So the covenant that God made with them first was a covenant that was predicated upon their obedience to that law. Now they broke that covenant, God said. They didn't obey the law. God gave to them the Ten Commandments; they broke them. They did not keep them. So God said, "I'm going to make a new covenant with them. In that day I'll make a new covenant. Not like the old covenant that was predicated upon their obedience and their faithfulness to obey the law. And I will be their God and they will be My people, and so forth, if they live by these things and do these things."

But what is the new covenant?

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people (Jer 31:33).

That is, I will give them a change of attitude within. I will give them a change of heart. It will not be an outward law that is forcing my obedience, but now it is a new covenant where God writes His law in my heart by creating in me a new nature. Now that's, of course, exactly what God has done for us. That's what Christianity is all about. Jesus said, "You've got to be born again. You were born of the flesh, but you've got to be born of the Spirit. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Don't marvel that I say you've got to be born again" (John 3:3,6-7). You need to have this new nature. And when you have this new nature, God then writes His law in your heart. You have a whole new desire, a whole new... You have such a change. It's from within and the desire for the things of the Lord as He writes His law upon my heart. And this new covenant that God has established with us through Jesus Christ, it's the same thing-the change of nature. Born again by the Spirit, a new nature after Christ Jesus.

And it is so important that we be born again, because we cannot keep that first covenant that God established. The law, we've all broken it. We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So God has established this new covenant. The old covenant was established upon man's faithfulness to obey the law. The new covenant is established upon God's faithfulness to justify us by our faith in Jesus Christ. The old covenant failed because it was predicated upon man. The new covenant will stand because it is predicated upon God's work.

And so we have this new covenant that God has established with us and also will establish with the house of Israel in that day. They are still trying to relate to God under the old covenant, but not completely. They no longer have any sacrifice, which was required of God to put away their sins. And so they're still seeking to relate to God outside of the covenant through Jesus Christ whereby our sins are taken away."

Now the challenge for the bible student is to explain how the New Covenant's changing of the heart is actually nothing New, if it so be you believe being born of God is nothing New from the Old covenant to the New, even though the Word speaks specifically of the heart being changed as part of the New.

Were those saved under the Old Covenant having the Holy Spirit?

 

[kyredneck]

The YLT is one of only a few(maybe the only one?) that uses ‘born from above’,

Bible Hub

 

[1689Dave]

Nicodemus's non-enlightenment should not affect the correct rendering of Christ's intent with the word 'anothen' here. Anothen ( from above, from a higher place, of things which come from heaven or God, from the first, from the beginning, from the very first, anew, over again) can mean 'anew' or 'over again', but that's not what Christ meant, thus His further explanation in the next verse:

5 Jesus answered, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. Jn 1 YLT

Christ wasn't speaking of an earthly physical birth which Nicodemus wrongly perceived, He was speaking of a spiritual birth FROM ABOVE.

"Born from above" syncs with a large amount of other scripture, old and new, and is consistent with the apostle John's (James also) intended use of the word anothen:

3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;' (YLT)
7 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; (YLT)
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly , and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. Jn 3

11 Jesus answered , Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout . Jn 19

As is the case with James:

17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Ja 1

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure , then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Ja 3

YLT conveys a 'celestial motif' in the dialogue (yea, the entire chapter) between Christ and Nicodemus that the rendering 'born again' misses:

2 this one came unto him by night, and said to him, `Rabbi, we have known that from God thou hast come -- a teacher, for no one these signs is able to do that thou dost, if God may not be with him.`
3 Jesus answered and said to him, `Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;`
7 `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
21 but he who is doing the truth doth come to the light, that his works may be manifested, that in God they are having been wrought.`
27 John answered and said, `A man is not able to receive anything, if it may not have been given him from the heaven
31 he who from above is coming is above all; he who is from the earth, from the earth he is, and from the earth he speaketh; he who from the heaven is coming is above all. Jn 3 YLT

Thanks for the pointers. I'm merely saying "born-again" fits Nicodemos' reaction better than born from above. Him mentioning his mother's womb and all...

The ESV also uses "born again" in several passages.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thanks for the pointers. I'm merely saying "born-again" fits Nicodemos' reaction better than born from above. Him mentioning his mother's womb and all...

The ESV also uses "born again" in several passages.

Born from above though is what literally is happening!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Bible Hub

Berean Literal Bible(did not want to use BLT...Lullz)
CEV
ISV
NET
GWT
Jubilee Bible 2000
YLT

So, that’s more than I thought used ‘born from above’.

 

[kyredneck]

I'm merely saying "born-again" fits Nicodemos' reaction better than born from above.

Again, we should not allow Nicodemus's ignorance to muddy Christ's intent here. We should let Christ's further explanation to Nicodemus be the guide. Born ‘again’, or ‘anew', breaks the continuity of how John consistently uses the word anothen in other places, even in that very chapter a mere 24 verses later, AND, it caters to and appeases the synergists in that it allows them wiggle room to claim having a part in it. 'Born from above' strongly denotes the truth that man is totally passive in the heavenly birth and it melds perfectly with all of John’s other ’born from above’ statements:

who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. Jn 1:13 YLT
if ye know that he is righteous, know ye that every one doing the righteousness, of him hath been begotten. 1 Jn 2:29 YLT
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. 1 Jn 3:9 YLT
7 Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God 1 Jn 4:7 YLT
1 Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him
4 because every one who is begotten of God doth overcome the world, and this is the victory that did overcome the world -- our faith
18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him 1 Jn 5 YLT

 

[1689Dave]

Born from above though is what literally is happening!

But........ it doesn't fit Nicodemos' reaction. Try substituting born again with born from above and explain how Nick thought Jesus meant he would re-enter his mother's womb and be "born from above".

 

[kyredneck]

Born from above though is what literally is happening!

ZACTLY!!!

 

[kyredneck]

But........ it doesn't fit Nicodemos' reaction. Try substituting born again with born from above and explain how Nick thought Jesus meant he would re-enter his mother's womb and be "born from above".

"Again, we should not allow Nicodemus's ignorance to muddy Christ's intent here. We should let Christ's further explanation to Nicodemus be the guide."

 

[1689Dave]

Again, we should not allow Nicodemus's ignorance to muddy Christ's intent here. We should let Christ's further explanation to Nicodemus be the guide. Born ‘again’, or ‘anew', breaks the continuity of how John consistently uses the word anothen in other places, even in that very chapter a mere 24 verses later, AND, it caters to and appeases the synergists in that it allows them wiggle room to claim having a part in it. 'Born from above' strongly denotes the truth that man is totally passive in the heavenly birth and it melds perfectly with all of John’s other ’born from above’ statements:

who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. Jn 1:13 YLT
if ye know that he is righteous, know ye that every one doing the righteousness, of him hath been begotten. 1 Jn 2:29 YLT
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. 1 Jn 3:9 YLT
7 Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God 1 Jn 4:7 YLT
1 Every one who is believing that Jesus is the Christ, of God he hath been begotten, and every one who is loving Him who did beget, doth love also him who is begotten of Him
4 because every one who is begotten of God doth overcome the world, and this is the victory that did overcome the world -- our faith
18 We have known that every one who hath been begotten of God doth not sin, but he who was begotten of God doth keep himself, and the evil one doth not touch him 1 Jn 5 YLT

“Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”” (John 3:4)

Why would Nick react this way to "born from above"? What does that have to do with his mother birthing him all over again? It is because Jesus said you must be born again.

 

[HankD]

You can instruct the hogs to stay out of the cesspool but actually a fence is required.

Now as for the sheep nothing is required as they hate the stench and corruption of it.

But even the sheep can fall into the mire.