That is also why we have none of the originals, as we would bow down and kiss them, just as Muslims do to the Rock.
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New Evidence for the Authenticity of the Shroud of Turin
- Thread starter Deadworm
- Start date
And if so, than by what other means can we know the real Jesus in a saving sense?
So, you no longer believe the Catholic church is apostate. Glad to hear it!
Walter,
I'm glad you continue to post here, when the site's mindless anti-Catholic bigotry has driven many decent Catholic site members away. I know by direct experience over many years, that the non-Catholic secular scholarly community on religious studies respects Catholic biblical scholarship far more than what passes for Baptist Bible scholarship. I myself have only stuck around this site because I know it attracts a significant number of open-minded non-Baptist visitors who benefit from our posts. In view of the many problematic details of the Gospel Easter narrative, the Shroud of Turin provides an awesome encouragement th hang in there and seek answers to these problems. Too bad most Bapists lack the passon for the truth that might open their minds and hearts to think outside the box.
I'm glad you continue to post here, when the site's mindless anti-Catholic bigotry has driven many decent Catholic site members away. I know by direct experience over many years, that the non-Catholic secular scholarly community on religious studies respects Catholic biblical scholarship far more than what passes for Baptist Bible scholarship. I myself have only stuck around this site because I know it attracts a significant number of open-minded non-Baptist visitors who benefit from our posts. In view of the many problematic details of the Gospel Easter narrative, the Shroud of Turin provides an awesome encouragement th hang in there and seek answers to these problems. Too bad most Bapists lack the passon for the truth that might open their minds and hearts to think outside the box.
Well their attitude was very similar to yours and the admin sent them on their way.
You do realize your on a Baptist web site, ......right?
To quote whatshisface up there
"Too bad most Bapists lack the passon for the truth that might open their minds and hearts to think outside the box."
How well would I fair on a Catholic website if I referred to Catholics as "you and your ilk"?
I don't believe that the person you have an issue with is a Catholic??? You may be assuming that the op is Catholic because he has found.that the evidence that.the Shroud of Turin could very possibly be more than 'an old rag'. I know non -Catholics that believe the Shroud is the real deal.
Never said that either.
I beg your pardon then. I probably confused you with another poster. I am truly sorry.
Well, since I was addressing you and your defense of the new guy, I went with Catholic. But feel free to insert Methodist or any other group, if it helps. I feel my point still stands. Framing himself as our savior from our intellectual inferiority as he's done wasn’t exactly the best way to win friends, here or anywhere. Someone who claims to be so interested in apologetics would know that, you'd think.
2 Kings 18:4. [Hezekiah] removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars, cut down the wooden image and broke in pieces the bronze serpent that Moses had made: for until those days the children of Israel had burned incense to it, and called it Nehushtan.'
There is no question that the bronze serpent was the genuine one that Moses had made, yet Hezekiah had it destroyed, even though it is a type of Christ made sin for us, because people had started to worship it. I suggest that would be the proper thing to do with this shroud thing, whether it is genuine or not.
I'm sorry, but the shroud is irrelevant when it comes to my faith journey as it should be to anyone else - this "proof" is simply not needed. Having faith means one accepts without question the core claims of the Christian narrative, things like the conception of Christ by the Holy Spirit, the virginal birth, and the death and resurrection and resulting saving grace of Jesus Christ Himself. What next, pieces of the tree on which Jesus was hung?
I have been involved locally with evangelism, including door-to-door work, for over 20 years. No one has ever at any time so much as mentioned the shroud of Turin whether they were Roman Catholic, Anglican, agnostic, atheist or whatever. It is utterly irrelevant to evangelism in my experience.
No. That's where ineffective evangelism begins. The Apostles preached Christ (Acts 2:22; 3:13; 5:42; 8:5, 12, 35; 10:36; 11:20 etc., etc.). 'For there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.' Whatever people's burning questions may be, they need Christ. We are rejoicing over a guy who has come wonderfully to Christ in the past couple of weeks. He had all sorts of questions about the meaning of life and so forth, but we didn't get into metaphysics with him, we told him about Jesus. The man is over 60 years old with no Christian background at all and it took over a year from first contact to salvation, calling every few weeks to keep the contact going, not at all refusing to answer his questions, but always pointing him to Jesus.
Catholics have not been expelled from this site; they have often been driven because of the consistent rudeness (labelling them a false cult, condemning them to Hell, etc.) , and dogmatic pontifications without concrete biblical substantiation. It would be convenient for the anti-Catholic bigots here if I were a Catholic defending my doctrinal turf. In fact, I am a Methodist who is defending Catholic distinctives here because of their unchristian treatment by Baptists and because I know by direct experience over many years that Catholic Bible scholarship is far more respected in secular scholarly circles, that do not embrace Catholic doctrine.
Also, I know by direct experience that the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin is a fascinating issue for many intellectual unchurched people and therefore an excellent tool for pre-evangelism. It provides a marvelous way to open hearts and minds who have previously dismissed Gospel testimony as totally legendary. What especially irks me is not Baptist dissent, but Baptist closed-mindedness that prevents them from even engaging in serious research on the Big Questions that might force them out of the comfort zone of their myopic Ghetto.
Also, I know by direct experience that the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin is a fascinating issue for many intellectual unchurched people and therefore an excellent tool for pre-evangelism. It provides a marvelous way to open hearts and minds who have previously dismissed Gospel testimony as totally legendary. What especially irks me is not Baptist dissent, but Baptist closed-mindedness that prevents them from even engaging in serious research on the Big Questions that might force them out of the comfort zone of their myopic Ghetto.
You have anecdotal evidence of this from your extensive tour of Baptist Board which started....25 days ago!
Again with the anecdotal evidence. It is equally underwhelming as your evidence of Catholics being driven off this site.
I will admit to the possibility of it being a discussion tool but in my 47 years of being a Christian, my extensive church-going experiences in a wide spectrum of evangelical churches (Baptist, charismatic, Calvinistic, etc.) I've never heard any one mention the Shroud of Turin as being an effective witnessing tool.
The thing about anecdotal evidence is that my anecdotal evidence trumps all others anecdotal evidence. The same could be said for yours.
Or we've dismissed the Shroud as another fake artifact along with enough splinters of the True Cross® that a castle could be built from them.
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
InTheLight: "You have anecdotal evidence of this from your extensive tour of Baptist Board which started....25 days ago!"
No, a long-standing Catholic site member who no longer posts made this observation about Catholics fleeing the toxic and disrespectful Baptist atmosphere on this site. And ask youarself: "Why aren't there more non-Baptist believers drawn to dialogue serious spiritual and biblical issues on this site?"
InTheLight: "Or we've dismissed the Shroud as another fake artifact...".
That would be OK with me if Baptists here actually bothered to consider the awesome evidence for the Shroud's authenticity presented on my posted videos as well as other online videos. Absent discussion of the specific array of evidence, the natural explanation for disrespecting the Catholic claims is anti-Catholic bias and that's precisely how the few Catholics who have posted here see it.
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No, a long-standing Catholic site member who no longer posts made this observation about Catholics fleeing the toxic and disrespectful Baptist atmosphere on this site. And ask youarself: "Why aren't there more non-Baptist believers drawn to dialogue serious spiritual and biblical issues on this site?"
InTheLight: "Or we've dismissed the Shroud as another fake artifact...".
That would be OK with me if Baptists here actually bothered to consider the awesome evidence for the Shroud's authenticity presented on my posted videos as well as other online videos. Absent discussion of the specific array of evidence, the natural explanation for disrespecting the Catholic claims is anti-Catholic bias and that's precisely how the few Catholics who have posted here see it.
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