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New IFB Church Movement

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
A note of clarification: Acts 1:8 is probably not a outline for our own missions programs. It is an outline of the initial spread of the gospel, and really serves as an outline for the book of Acts, that records its history.
 

IfbReformer

New Member
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
A note of clarification: Acts 1:8 is probably not a outline for our own missions programs. It is an outline of the initial spread of the gospel, and really serves as an outline for the book of Acts, that records its history.
Pastor Larry,
Why is this not a good outline? If you say that it is only for the book of Acts and that time period then you can do the same thing with the great commission like many in the past have done and say it was only for the Apostles and the beginning of the church.

And on a practical note - does it not make more sense to clean up your backyard before you go to someone elses backyard 500 miles away to clean up theirs?

It seems to me that many churches - not just Baptist - ignore the Spiritual drought we have in the United States. We are more concerned about the guy in a hut 3000 miles away then we are with our next door neighbor. Don't get me wrong - there is nothing wrong with international missions - buts lets not get the cart before the horse.

IFBReformer
 

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
I agree with the principle of what you are saying. My point was that Acts 1:8 is not the place to argue it from. Christ was there telling how the gospel would spread.

I think it wise to make sure our own efforts and evangelism is taking place. But we must maintain a worldwide vision at the same time. I do not see this as an either/or but rather as a both/and.

We must maintain our mission at home while also furthering the missions of the world.
 

IfbReformer

New Member
Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I agree with the principle of what you are saying. My point was that Acts 1:8 is not the place to argue it from. Christ was there telling how the gospel would spread.

I think it wise to make sure our own efforts and evangelism is taking place. But we must maintain a worldwide vision at the same time. I do not see this as an either/or but rather as a both/and.

We must maintain our mission at home while also furthering the missions of the world.
Pastor Larry,

I belive Christ's words in Acts were not only prophectic of would happen but they were also a pattern for us. I know you may not agree with that.

But let me ask you a practical question that this philosphy would affect - If a church is not able to support it's pastor full time - in other words he has to work a part time job, do they have any business supporting other churches Pastors(ie. Missionaries) Is not the Pastor of our local church the first 'Missionary' we are to support?

So this seems to me to be an either/or situation.

You either support your pastor full time or you support your pastor part time and support some missionaries part time.

IFBReformer
 

chargrove

<img src=/chargrov.jpg>
Let me chime in again and say that I wish more SBC's would indeed look in their own backyard instead of the other side of the planet. However, many of them do just that, and I think that goes unnoticed sometimes when they do. As in any denomination, every church is different. The whole BGCT versus SBTC issue has been unfortunate, and quite frankly, is the BGCT's fault in the first place. :(
 
J

John Croce

Guest
I was a member of an SBC church for many years.
I have recently (in the past 2 yrs) joined an independent baptist church in northern Illinois. Some of the points that have been discussed here in this thread are prominent in my church while some are not. My pastor could not be more caring and loving in speech and manner. He is THE best preacher I have ever been associated with. His use of KJV could not be clearer for me who is used to using NASB. Our support of missionaires could be better but I guess I still have a strong affection for the Cooperative Program.

2 yrs ago our church was purely southern gospel music but as members move (our music leader moved to Missouri), so music patterns change.

God is working in our midst and that is what is important. Souls are being saved and lives are being spiritually transformed.

IFB, Independent Baptist, SBC, or whatever. God is still on throne. Praise be to God.
 

chargrove

<img src=/chargrov.jpg>
Congratulations, John William. You sound like you have found a wonderful congregation that is making a difference in people's lives. I pray that my church will do the same. I personally do not support the CBF, if that is to what you are referring, but am all about other cooperative Baptist efforts. God is good.
 
Let me tell you about the type of Baptist that I am and that I will die as.
First of all. I am a born again, Independent (self governing) fundamental (we hold to the fundamentals of the faith, God's Preserved Word, God's standards, separated, (hate sin and call it by it's rightful name) I am a King James Bible AV1611 ONLY (God's Word and not mans' perversion amen!) Uncompromising, We don't compromise God's Word, his music, his standards, we believe and OBEY His Word: therefore NO: and yea our ladies don't wear pants but they are exactly that, they are ladies and they are clean and our boys look like boys, they aren't a bunch of long haired, thumbsucking, pansy acting, pro liberal, pro anything goes compromisers. This worship "feel goodism" we have today is a bunch of garbage, Real Biblical preaching convicts, go ahead and hate me (join the rest of the rebels but i'll tell you what, the baptist or any other type of church can change all the time to make everyone happy...but a Biblical planted hell raising Baptist church will always be the same.

WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED KING JAMES BIBLE
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED PREACHER WHO PREACHES THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED REVIVAL!
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED HYMNAL BOOK!
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED DRESS STANDARDS
WE NEED OLD FASHIONED PREACHING AND TO CALL SIN BY IT'S NAME


The backslider likes the preaching that wouldn't hit the side of a house, while the real disciple is delighted when the truth brings him to his knees. (Billy Sunday)

sincerely,

A Born again, Independent, Fundamental, KJB AV1611 loving, uncompromising, sold out to God, separated, blood bought, sin hating, sinner loving, mission minded, hell raising, Baptist
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
When people change the definition of words to meet their own doctrinal belief, they are classified as "neo-orthodox".

Most often these are "liberals" who use the same words I do, but change the definition. Cults also do this.

When someone says they are a "fundamentalist", and then change the meaning to include KJV or dress codes, this is "conservatives" doing the exact same neo-orthodox strategems.

Sadly.
 

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
Originally posted by IfbReformer:
But let me ask you a practical question that this philosphy would affect - If a church is not able to support it's pastor full time - in other words he has to work a part time job, do they have any business supporting other churches Pastors(ie. Missionaries) Is not the Pastor of our local church the first 'Missionary' we are to support?

So this seems to me to be an either/or situation.

You either support your pastor full time or you support your pastor part time and support some missionaries part time.
I do agree with you on this point, providing that the pastor is going to do full time ministry work. Health insurance and a livable salary should be among the first "missions projects" for the church.
 

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Surrender To Jesus:
Let me tell you about the type of Baptist that I am and that I will die as. [middle edited] ...A Born again, Independent, Fundamental, KJB AV1611 loving, uncompromising, sold out to God, separated, blood bought, sin hating, sinner loving, mission minded, hell raising, Baptist
Perhaps you consider the biblical admonitions and add "grace" and "tact" to your list ...
 

swordsman

New Member
The backslider likes the preaching that wouldn't hit the side of a house, while the real disciple is delighted when the truth brings him to his knees. (Billy Sunday)

sincerely,

A Born again, Independent, Fundamental, KJB AV1611 loving, uncompromising, sold out to God, separated, blood bought, sin hating, sinner loving, mission minded, hell raising, Baptist [/qb][/QUOTE


Surrender, I am very happy that you attend a sound church, there are so few today.
wave.gif


[ March 31, 2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: swordsman ]
 

swordsman

New Member
Earlier on this thread it was mentioned about protestant churches... Didn't all the protestant churches come OUT of the Catholic Church such as the Methodist.
The Baptist were never part of the Catholic.
 

RaptureReady

New Member
Originally posted by Surrender To Jesus:
Let me tell you about the type of Baptist that I am and that I will die as.
First of all. I am a born again, Independent (self governing) fundamental (we hold to the fundamentals of the faith, God's Preserved Word, God's standards, separated, (hate sin and call it by it's rightful name) I am a King James Bible AV1611 ONLY (God's Word and not mans' perversion amen!) Uncompromising, We don't compromise God's Word, his music, his standards, we believe and OBEY His Word: therefore NO: and yea our ladies don't wear pants but they are exactly that, they are ladies and they are clean and our boys look like boys, they aren't a bunch of long haired, thumbsucking, pansy acting, pro liberal, pro anything goes compromisers. This worship "feel goodism" we have today is a bunch of garbage, Real Biblical preaching convicts, go ahead and hate me (join the rest of the rebels but i'll tell you what, the baptist or any other type of church can change all the time to make everyone happy...but a Biblical planted hell raising Baptist church will always be the same.

WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED KING JAMES BIBLE
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED PREACHER WHO PREACHES THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED REVIVAL!
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED HYMNAL BOOK!
WE NEED AN OLD FASHIONED DRESS STANDARDS
WE NEED OLD FASHIONED PREACHING AND TO CALL SIN BY IT'S NAME


The backslider likes the preaching that wouldn't hit the side of a house, while the real disciple is delighted when the truth brings him to his knees. (Billy Sunday)

sincerely,

A Born again, Independent, Fundamental, KJB AV1611 loving, uncompromising, sold out to God, separated, blood bought, sin hating, sinner loving, mission minded, hell raising, Baptist
Amen and Amen brother!
 

superdave

New Member
Let me tell you what kind of Baptist I am... [expletives deleted]

I can tell this is going to be fun

My church is a Word centered ministry

As as result, no silly focus on Dress standards (althought we don't seem to have a problem with dress)

No uneccessary death grip on a particular English translation

No "feel-goodism" (The preaching is very hard, focused on and understanding of Doctrine, very convicting, altar calls, and also personal accountability)

Holy Spirit activity (God is working in the hearts of members, and the Church is also growing fast,something like 88 members added last year, with more than half of those by Baptism)

The list goes on, lets just say, it looks nothing like either extreme listed in the above posts, it is a balanced, purpose driven, Word centered, living ang growing ministry, where the credit goes to God, nowhere else. More than I can say for many traditional IFB churches I have been in, even if they used the KJV and had a dress code. For some reason, that isn't what brings real change to people, you have to change what they are trusting in, and their heart attitudes, the rest of the Christian walk follows pretty close.
thumbs.gif
 

Pastor Larry

<b>Moderator</b>
Site Supporter
I am curious ... you say we need an old fashioned hymnal book. Do you realize that hymn books are not old fashioned? They are modern inventions.
 
HomeBound, swordsman....i appreciate the feedback! It's sad to see Biblically sound Fundamental churches become fewer and fewer........

"The Lord is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Just "cleaned up" (edited into cyberspace) 11 posts on this thread. ALL had been a misunderstanding and the posters had ASKED me to erase them.

THIS is what I envisioned the BB to be. And appreciate the spirit of brotherly love demonstrated here.

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Two thumbs up
 

IfbReformer

New Member
Originally posted by Surrender To Jesus:
I am a born again, Independent (self governing) fundamental (we hold to the fundamentals of the faith, God's Preserved Word, God's standards, separated, (hate sin and call it by it's rightful name) I am a King James Bible AV1611 ONLY (God's Word and not mans' perversion amen!) Uncompromising, We don't compromise God's Word, his music, his standards, we believe and OBEY His Word: therefore NO:
Surrender To Jesus,

When did God come down and speak to you to tell you that the 7 edition of the 9th translation of the Bible in english(the KJV) was his preserved Word and he did not want any more translations made or research into the greek text?

Answer - he did'nt.

When did God come down and tell you that your specific application of biblical principles(such as clothing, music and others issues) was inerrant?

Answer - he did'nt.

Originally posted by Surrender To Jesus:
and yea our ladies don't wear pants but they are exactly that, they are ladies and they are clean and our boys look like boys, they aren't a bunch of long haired, thumbsucking, pansy acting, pro liberal, pro anything goes compromisers.
So a women is not a lady if she wears pants - where can I find this in the Bible?

Answer - its not in the Bible.

Originally posted by Surrender To Jesus:
This worship "feel goodism" we have today is a bunch of garbage, Real Biblical preaching convicts, go ahead and hate me
I don't hate you - I pray for you. You seem to have a lot of pent up anger inside you. It's so frustrating for you - you are constantly asking yourself this question(I know because I used to be where you are) "Why can't everybody be like me? Why doesn't everybody apply the scripture the way I do? How can people actually have different standards than me?"

The Apostle Paul helped me to understand when I really mediated on Romans chapter 14.

Romans 14:1-6 & 10-13
"1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God...10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

Here are some questions for you:

Are you "passing judgment on disputable matters"such as clothing,music and leisure activities?

Are you "the man who does not eat everything condemning the man who does?

I ask the same question Paul asked - "Who are you to judge someone else's servant?"

"One man considers one day[or bible translation or music or clothing..ect] more sacred than another; another man considers every day[or Bible translation or music or clothing..ect] alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

I Corinthians 4:5-6(NIV)
"5Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
6Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another."

Lets just look at the Baptist Churches as a whole: How much division and discention is caused among Bible believing brethren over tradition and the teachings of men. Baptist Churches following charimatic leaders who get on hobby horses not found in the scriptures.

Like Jesus said of the Pharisees in Mark 7:7 your teachings are "but rules taught by men". The Pharisees thought they and other jewish leaders were doing God a favor by filling in the blanks. By adding rules they thought made sense.

I find it interesting that the majority of Christ's verbal attacks were directed against the 'religious' people of the day - the priests and those like the Pharisees.

I want to clearify one thing at the end here. There is a balance between exercising one's christian liberty and causing a weaker brother to be offended. I am careful of what I do with other brothers and and I always try to make sure I do not offend my weaker brother. In the same token the brother who feels God would not have engage in a disputable matter should not judge the brother who does.

A quick example:

I do not believe the scriptures forbid drinking alchohal. They forbid drunkness. But I may have a Christian friend who was a drunk before he was saved so for him alchohal represents his past - so I would not drink in front of him. Does this mean I never drink wine - but I am careful of how I exercise my liberty.

But Paul would have never wrote Romans chapter 14 if he thought we all would and should have the same standards on every issue. He wrote it under the inspiration of God so that when he and the other apostles where gone we would know how to conduct ourselves when it came to "disputable matters".

While I believe the KJV Only position and many other positions of "OLD FASHION" Baptist churches to be not biblically based - I that many sincere believers believe these things "to the Lord" in a humble spirit. Others take a more carnal tone and judge their fellow brothers for not coming to the same conclusions on these "disputable matters".


Just some things to think about
IFBReformer
 
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