New Insight - Rick Warren

There is a way to present it respectfully, and then there is the hit and run, salesman approach that leave the soul hardened.

I'm not saying that Linda did this, but I get tired of cleaning up messes left by drive by evangelists that simply follow the Hyles manual to witnessing.

That is what it sounded like to me... she doesn't care if she offended them...

The gospel is offensive, but we don't have to be.

She comes on this thread blasting away at Warrens approach to reach the Jews, then admits they won't even listen to her....

Now tell me, who has the better chance of reaching them... someone they will listen to, or someone that offended them to the point that they don't care what that person says...

 

It wasn't me who offended them--it was the gospel (1 Peter 2:8). I was led of the Spirit to share Christ with my unsaved Jewish friends. You are making assumptions that are untrue--you have no idea because you weren't there.

More assumptions once again. God's Word will not return void. (Isaiah 55:11). I planted seed, God will bring in the increase.

 

Linda, I am sorry if I am projecting my experiences with drive by evangelists on your situation... if you did nothing to offend them, except share Christ, then of course God will bless His words.

But I am sure you also know of people that are offensive in the way they present the Gospel.

The Gospel is offensive enough... we shouldn't be adding our offensiveness to it.

There are right times to share, and wrong times, and we need to be sensitive to the Spirit to discern each.

 

Tim- You most certainly did blast me when you had absolutely no idea what happened. That event happened when I first got saved--maybe about 6 months in the Lord, in 1974. I had absolutely no idea about Jack Hyles or his manual to witnessing. Jewish people do NOT like to hear the gospel and they were offended by the GOSPEL--NOT ME. I used no "method"--I just witnessed what happened to me. Simple as that.

What a way for a brother to talk!! Do you ever witness to the Jewish people? The gospel is an offence to most Jews--it was to me. However, I praise God that somebody did offend me with the gospel--she showed me the true Light, Jesus Christ.

Our battle is SPIRITUAL--if the gospel is offensive, then the messenger needs to know that the response of the lost to the message is not to be taken personally. We are to put on the "whole armour of God". Forget the manuals!

Maybe it seems that way to you, Tim, but I am concerned that when the Lord opens the door to share the gospel with 1,500 unsaved Jews, one should do so, in the power of the Spirit. I guarantee you, if RW had done that, he probably would not have been asked back. People just don't want to hear the truth. Look at the Apostle Paul.

People will listen to anyone who will tell them what they want to hear--anything that will "placate" them and help them to feel better about themselves. People do not want to hear the truth no matter who the messenger is. That is why we need to pray that the Holy Spirit will open their hearts to receive the Truth -- that Jesus died for our sins, according to Scriptures!

 

Let me give you an example that happened to me about 5 yrs ago.

We lived in an apartment and the landlord's son lived in the house beside us. We were good friends. Even though I was a preacher, and he was a good ole boy that liked to drink some, and party on Friday nights, we still counted each other as friends.

Our families would get together on weekends and cook out, play horse shoes, and just sit around and visit.

One evening, we were sitting on his front porch.
Him, his wife, me and my wife were just sitting there talking, while our children played in the yard when 2 preachers from a local IFB church pulled into the drive... They got out of their car with their 3 peice suit, and a big Bible under their arms....

My neighbor said, "Ah man, not them again"
They walked up to the porch, and started using the FORM approach... (I recoginized it, although my neighbor didn't)
The FORM approach is a salesmans approach to preach the gospel
Start talking about FAMILY...
Move to OCCUPATION...
Then to RELIGION...
Then into the MESSAGE

Of course they didn't know I was saved, so they started talking to me also about my kids, and how nice they looked... (roll eyes)
Then they moved on to my occupation, and when I told them that I was a Pastor, you know what their response was?

"Well you should look like a Pastor, Why are you wearing those shorts instead of a suit!" Then they asked me why I was socializing with sinners.

I excused myself and walked away.
After they left, my neighbor said that Hell would freeze over before he went to their church. Then he asked me what time our church started.

He came to our church for awhile, and finally got saved...
Now do you see my point?

They were offensive to him. I wasn't.
He refused to hear them, he heard me.

That is what I am talking about.
We can turn the hearer off before the message of the Cross can even be presented.

 

Linda, have you been to Saddleback?

If not then how can you make this statement in post 47?
...
"It's all business with him and how to grow their congregations--not salvation. "

Do you know his heart?
You are condemning a brother in Christ that has reached more people for Christ than either you or I ever will.
And I wonder how many Jews have already been saved from Saddleback's ministry.

Instead of slamming him, we should be praying for his ministry.
If you want to slam someone, feel free to blast away at Jack Schaaps heretical teachings that the Communion Table is like having Sex with Christ. But I bet most IFBs won't touch that one. Why? He is Hyles son in law... almighty Pastor of FBC of Hammond!
http://www.gideonsword.net/articles/FalseDoctrine/FDart/forchristssake.htm
And yes I pray for him also...
Psalms 109:8
(8) Let his days be few; [and] let another take his office.

 

Tinytim: //That is the problem with the hit and run
gospel... you offend them, then when others come
behind you that want to develop a relationship with
them in order to SHARE Christ with them,
the door gets slammed in our face.//

Amen, Brother Tinytim -- Preach it! :thumbs:

The word "Christ' is offensive to Jews.
Hitler killed 6 to 12 Million Jews under the banner 'Christ'.

'Christ' is a Greek term meaning 'anointed one of God'.
'Messiah' is a Hebrew term meaning 'anointed one of G-d'.
The word 'Christ' is offensive to a Jew; the word 'Messiah'
is NOT offensive to a Jew. Jews who believe Jesus BenJoseph
to be their Messiah are NOT 'Christians' but are called
non-offencively 'Messanic Jews'.

 

What happened to you and your neighbor is not what happened to me when I witnessed to those unsaved Jewish friends. These friends still remained friends and I was able to share Christ with them some years later. Don't know if they got saved, but the seed was planted. Now it's up to the Lord to bring in the harvest.

 

That is great.. sorry I misunderstood your post.

 

I'm your huckleberry.

Peter Drucker as his mentor...it's about business.

 

tinytim,

it bothers me to no end when witnessers act the way they did in your example! I understand what you're saying, and Ive seen it too much in my circles. The witnesser acts rude and then "blames" the gospel for the offense.

It sounds sort of like your neighbor went to church with you partly to "stick it to" the other guys.....if so, then God used their rude behaviour despite themselves! :godisgood:

 

Ed-
I call myself a "Christian". I was involved with the Messianic Movement for a number of years and I left it and began attending a Baptist church. Before I got saved, I thought all gentiles were Christians and I didn't want to be associated with those who called us "Christ killers". It wasnt' until 1974 when my "Christian" (she was gentile) neighbor shared the Truth of Jesus Christ with me. After I came to faith in Christ, the word "Christian" was not offensive anymore, because I understood who and what a true Christian was and that not all gentiles are Christians, as I previously thought.

 

Then in that case God's word did not come back Void...
I wonder if I was there providentially? Of course I was...God knew what he was doing...

And I again want to apologize to Linda for misreading, or reading in to her posts things that were not there.

 

see Linda,

Im glad you explained that just now. I was starting to wonder if it wasn't a bit much for you to go to a Jewish congregation and try to witness while at their synagogue....but as a SAVED Jewish Christian yourself you have a FAR greater testimony to them than any of us Gentiles. This explains it perfectly to me. I know if I went into a synagogue it would be rude for me to try to preach Christ to them there....but you are in a position to do that. Im sure too that this is why this subject has hit a nerve with you.

I know for most Gentiles that I know (including myself) the Jewish people are probably THE most daunting and intimidating group to witness to. We/I feel as if we must be very, very prepared, and really I feel like I will not be listened to simply because I am a Gentile.

I wouldn't automatically assume that Rick Warren was afraid of them, but from a Gentile perspective we figure we really have to have a deeper relationship with them before the witnessing can begin.....even more so than really any other group.

I don't know if it did, but I hope this helps...........

 

No, I have not been to Saddleback, but I have attended another PDC--where my son and his family attend in Santa Monica, CA. Ron and I were just there 2 weeks ago and I was there 3 years ago. Sorry to say, I was not impressed (except for the architecture of the church building). It upset me that nobody brought Bibles to church--I thought everyone brought a Bible to church. The preaching was very shallow and it was more of a "feel good" message than anything else.

Let me tell you something about this PDC we attended in California 2 weeks ago. Like I said, nobody brought their Bible (except me and Ron). There were more "business type" and "social club" type announcements than there was preaching and Bible reading (from an overhead). The people were friendly, but they are friendly here at the IFB church where we attend--but we hear more Bible preaching than we do "announcements". And we all bring our Bibles too!

I've heard RW speak--I've downloaded some of his messages. He's a fast talker, but I'm just not impressed with his messages--too watered down and "feel good". I know you like him--and believe it or not, I love him in the Lord, but I need to be discerning and check out what he says in the light of Scriptures. I believe he is sincere in what he is doing--but I believe he is deviating from the truth of the Gospel.

The Word of God is condemning him, not me. All I am doing is trying to discern truth from error. It's that simple.

Only God knows this.

Just want you to know that I do pray for Rick Warren. If you want to call being discerning and checking out someone's teaching in the light of God's Word slamming, so be it. BTW, I am NOT into Jack Schaaps or Jack Hyles and neither is the IFB church we attend. I don't care for his "egocentric" preaching. Just my opinion.

 

You busted me, I pulled that one out of my hat but you knew better... :laugh:

Of all the other religions in the world, there must be another that teaches love for your fellow man. Insert that one where I wrote Buddist... Thanks Sis... Don't see ya posting much lately.

 

All I am doing is discerning Rick Warren's teachings in the light of God's Word.

Are you saying that some of RW's teaching is applicable to the Mormon Church, Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall or a Jewish synagogue? That certainly doesn't sound very biblical. Does he just throw the Gospel in the book as an afterthought? And what is RW's message of the Gospel? I could not find it in the PDL book. To me, PDL is more of a "self help" book. To say that God created you for a "purpose" and when you know God, you will find your "purpose" is not the gospel as it is found in the Scriptures. Therefore, Rick Warren makes "his message of the Gospel lukewarm".

 

We have some Jewish clergy in an Aliance to work on problems in the community. Really it's just a good ole boys club cuz most of them don't really know what community we're their to help.

Anyway, one thing I learned is never tell them they killed Jesus. They don't seem to like that to well???? I do love discussing OT with them espacially the customs and traditions. I find most Jews do accept Christ, they think he was a great prophet...