New Jerusalem?

[convicted1]

If by fleshly you mean corruptible, no. If you mean physical, most definately. How Jesus' body was after resurrection will be how ours are.

Bro web,

To me, this is what I think tears down the natural kingdom that those who ascribe to the MK theology hold to come true. Jesus plainly told them the ONLY WAY to worship God is in SPIRIT and in truth. God is a SPIRIT and seeketh such to worship Him in SPIRIT and in truth. Apostle Paul also plainly stated that in the FLESH dwelleth no good things, for when I do good, evil is present. We are born again spiritually here on earth, because the flesh is corruptible. We are born of an incorruptible seed, by the word of God. Jesus was able to walk through walls after He had died on the cross. If it were to be a natural kingdom, why does our body stay here on earth when we die? When we die, our soul goes back to God who gave it, and our flesh returns to the earth....from the dust thou art, and dust thou shalt return. Our flesh will receive the "change" in the ground, when Jesus comes and we will be given a GLORIFIED body that will not be fleshly. No "natual" flesh shall enter into heaven . This is the way I see it.

Willis

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro web,

To me, this is what I think tears down the natural kingdom that those who ascribe to the MK theology hold to come true. Jesus plainly told them the ONLY WAY to worship God is in SPIRIT and in truth. God is a SPIRIT and seeketh such to worship Him in SPIRIT and in truth. Apostle Paul also plainly stated that in the FLESH dwelleth no good things, for when I do good, evil is present. We are born again spiritually here on earth, because the flesh is corruptible. We are born of an incorruptible seed, by the word of God. Jesus was able to walk through walls after He had died on the cross. If it were to be a natural kingdom, why does our body stay here on earth when we die? When we die, our soul goes back to God who gave it, and our flesh returns to the earth....from the dust thou art, and dust thou shalt return. Our flesh will receive the "change" in the ground, when Jesus comes and we will be given a GLORIFIED body that will not be fleshly. No flesh shall enter into heaven . This is the way I see it.

Willis

I think what convicted is saying is that we will not have a natural body of flesh and yes, we will have a body like Jesus.

As Job said, yet in my flesh shall I see God. But not natural flesh.

BBob,

nite................:sleeping_2:

 

[convicted1]

I think what convicted is saying is that we will not have a natural body of flesh and yes, we will have a body like Jesus.

As Job said, yet in my flesh shall I see God. But not natural flesh.

BBob,

nite................:sleeping_2:

Bro Bob,

That's EXACTLY the point I was trying to make....thanks again for helping me with my shortcomings.

What I am trying to say is this (Please God help me to get this straight!!): When we are born again, the "inner man" is the one which gets saved. There will be a struggle between the Inner and Outer man until we die, or whenever Jesus comes to takes us home to glory(whichever comes first). The "change" in our "natural" body doesn't take place the moment we are saved, but when we are to be received into glory(at the moment we come out of the grave, IOW). We will then get a Spiritual flesh body at that time. We will have a body like Jesus, for the bible says it is not yet known what we will be like, but we will be in His likeness(me paraphrasing some scriptures). I hope I have made this clear enough.

Now, it's time to get back to work!

Edited: It's just what Jesus told Nicodemus when Nicodemus asked how can I go back into my mother's womb to be born again? Jesus told him "that which is born of flesh is flesh, that which is born of Spirit, is Spirit.

 

[skypair]

Romans 11:1: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. ... 5: Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

You think these people were not Israel? ... It says a portion was cutoff,...

They are ... and not true. And Rom 11:32 says "For God hath concluded them all [all believing OT Israel] in unbelief [as broken branches], that he might have mercy upon all [when He comes again!]." So basically, you have "read" some unbelieving Israel "into" the olive tree that aren't there. This epistle is post-Pentecost, Bob, and God STILL includes them ALL in unbelief. Can you get it through your head NOW that God is going to graft them back in (as is the theme of the passage) and it will be blessings to the world??!!

The end is not here yet for him to fulfill His promise to the Apostles and us, to redeem our bodies.

Right! :thumbs: So where do you come by this "rapture" at Christ's death?

You are just completely out on a limb, when you think God changed His mind and made the covenant with the Gentiles, instead of who the promise was too.

You're the one who says God has cast away His people (all but a remnant). Rom 11:2 There is only a REMNANT of believers right now, Bob, 11:5. But God means to bring them ALL in, 11:26.

"...rather through their fall salvation [COVENANT] is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy." 11:11 See where the Gentiles are brought into the new covenant before them, now? "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" Paul is right here prophesying their "fulness" -- their restoration into the new covenant LATER, 11:12.

the greater part was not cutoff, the "elect" for sure. That was what we were "grafted" in to. If they are not there, then we had nothing to be grafted in to.

Read it again, Bob -- we're grafted into the "root and lump" ("religious heritage"), not into the "remnant branches." And the "root and lump" ARE "not there." They are folks like Abraham, Isaac,... We partake, not of the branches, but of the "root and fatness of the olive tree" ("religious heritage").

You would have to believe the "elect" were cutoff also, if you believe all of Israel were cutoff!

No sir, I wouldn't. I would believe that, them being the root and stem, they are our spiritual support and will appear in heaven and in New Earth with us. Furthermore, when we are cut out/raptured, they will come back in the MK and be grafted back into their own religious heritage + Jesus.

When the saints were resurrected at His resurrection and went in to that Holy City. It sure was not natural Jerusalem. They are in Heaven.

So you lift that verse out of context and use it to substantiate your "private interpretation." Great! There will be no way for me to convince you of the truth, I guess. :tear:

skypair

 

[skypair]

Now Skypair, I have a simple question that needs a "yes" or "no" answer only. Will we live in fleshly bodies when we live with God forever?

Yes. You got a problem with that? :laugh:

Reading on down to your later posts, I agree we will be "all be changed, in the twinkling of an eye" (1Cor 15:52) into our new bodies fitted for heaven. I believe Paul calls them bodies of "celestial glory." However, I believe that on this earth, the saved receive bodies of "terrestrial glory." That is, quickened by the Holy Spirit to learn and practice living in those perfect bodies that we will receive at the rapture.

Believe me, the rapture and receiving a body in heaven are going to leave BBob saying to himself, "What am I doing here?!" :laugh:


skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

They are ... and not true. And Rom 11:32 says "For God hath concluded them all [all believing OT Israel] in unbelief [as broken branches], that he might have mercy upon all [when He comes again!]." So basically, you have "read" some unbelieving Israel "into" the olive tree that aren't there. This epistle is post-Pentecost, Bob, and God STILL includes them ALL in unbelief. Can you get it through your head NOW that God is going to graft them back in (as is the theme of the passage) and it will be blessings to the world??!!

Wonder why Paul and the others were not "cast away"???

Rom 11:1¶I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

Right! :thumbs: So where do you come by this "rapture" at Christ's death?

They were still living. It was the dead saints that were resurrected.

You're the one who says God has cast away His people (all but a remnant). Rom 11:2 There is only a REMNANT of believers right now, Bob, 11:5. But God means to bring them ALL in, 11:26.

"...rather through their fall salvation [COVENANT] is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy." 11:11 See where the Gentiles are brought into the new covenant before them, now? "Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" Paul is right here prophesying their "fulness" -- their restoration into the new covenant LATER, 11:12.

They fell through "unbelief", but not all. The fullness of the Gentiles has already come and if Israel don't get on board now, they are lost. There is a remnant of Israel that did get on board and we were grafted into them.
YOu change the word of God, when you put the New Covenant to Gentiles, without being grafted into Israel.


Read it again, Bob -- we're grafted into the "root and lump" ("religious heritage"), not into the "remnant branches." And the "root and lump" ARE "not there." They are folks like Abraham, Isaac,... We partake, not of the branches, but of the "root and fatness of the olive tree" ("religious heritage").

I have read it and it says a portion were broken off, that we might be grafted in.


No sir, I wouldn't. I would believe that, them being the root and stem, they are our spiritual support and will appear in heaven and in New Earth with us. Furthermore, when we are cut out/raptured, they will come back in the MK and be grafted back into their own religious heritage + Jesus.

So, the coming of Christ to die was not enough for them, they need another. YOu talk like the Jews and Pharasees.

So you lift that verse out of context and use it to substantiate your "private interpretation." Great! There will be no way for me to convince you of the truth, I guess. :tear:

skypair

You are the one who ignores the promise of God to Israel, when the Messiah comes. You don't believe the Messiah has come, same as the Pharasees.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes. You got a problem with that? :laugh:

Reading on down to your later posts, I agree we will be "all be changed, in the twinkling of an eye" (1Cor 15:52) into our new bodies fitted for heaven. I believe Paul calls them bodies of "celestial glory." However, I believe that on this earth, the saved receive bodies of "terrestrial glory." That is, quickened by the Holy Spirit to learn and practice living in those perfect bodies that we will receive at the rapture.

Believe me, the rapture and receiving a body in heaven are going to leave BBob saying to himself, "What am I doing here?!" :laugh:


skypair

Wonder why Jesus went away to prepare a place for us, when you say its going to be here. Looks like He would be down here with a hammer and a bunch of nails, working away.

Everyone has a terrestrial body now, which is a natural body.

1 a: of or relating to the earth or its inhabitants

BBob,

 

[skypair]

Wonder why Jesus went away to prepare a place for us, when you say its going to be here. Looks like He would be down here with a hammer and a bunch of nails, working away.

Tonight, do me a favor. Look up in the sky and consider whether all those stars up there are physical or spiritual. :laugh: Consider whether a perfect, physical kingdom might be "under constructin" up there -- one that would require us to have CELESTIAL bodies to go to. Then consider what "we all must be changed" means in 1Cor 15:52.

So here's the "drill" -- the "gouge" as pilot's call it: We go there for 7 years while Israel discovers the "Lamb" of the Revelation. Then we come back with Christ, Rev 19, to put Christ's enemies under His feet thus restoring the kingdom He was ready to claim at His first advent. Then Satan is given one last "fling" whereupon the rest of the saints are raptured out and the old earth "melted with a fervent heat."

...

Granted, we wouldn't need new bodies to go to your spiritual NJ. There would really be no point in "the change" to go to yours, would there?

Everyone has a terrestrial body now, which is a natural body.

You're avoiding one of the adjectives, Bobby -- "terrestrial GLORY."

skypair

 

[skypair]

Wonder why Paul and the others were not "cast away"???

Quite simple, Bob -- they believed in/conformed with the NEW religious system. They were neither a) "all Israel" nor b) a "remnant" of all the tribes (as the 144,000 will be). They were part of a "nation that is no nation and a people that is no people" which God had told the Jews would emerge in His plan.

skypair: Right! So where do you come by this "rapture" at Christ's death?

BBob: They were still living. It was the dead saints that were resurrected.

That doesn't conform with 1Thes 4:16-17 -- the "rapture" -- now does it, Bob.

YOu change the word of God, when you put the New Covenant to Gentiles, without being grafted into Israel.

OK, what covenant was Paul talking about when he said "covenant when He shall take away their sins?"

I have read it and it says a portion were broken off, that we might be grafted in.

And IGNORED the part where it says the ALL are included in unbelief -- that is, did not know of or didn't believe in the NEW religious system called Christianity.

So, the coming of Christ to die was not enough for them, they need another. YOu talk like the Jews and Pharasees.

That's just it, Bob --- Christ never came to most of them! Did Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. see Christ? What they need in order to be "grafted in" is to see and believe on Christ/Messiah -- and they will in the MK.

You, Bob, are having a huge problem with this "religious system" thing whereby the whole of Judaism was interrupted. Imagine the "root and stem" making blood sacrifices because THERE WAS NO CHRIST. Now imagine that just as the branches were starting to grow in, those sacrifices are DONE AWAY WITH IN CHRIST. Now imagine that at some future time, the wild branches of Christianity and NO sacrifices are taken out (raptured, Rom 11:24) and the natural branches, ALL ISRAEL, of the sacrificial system are restored (trib and MK). THAT is what will be blessing to the world!

skypair

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I can’t see how the church could be anything else, but "New Jerusalem"!

Revelation was a vision John saw while on the Isle of Patmos... Many years after the Church started in that upper room on Pentacost.

The Church was already established before John's vision of the New Jerusalem.

 

[webdog]

I think what convicted is saying is that we will not have a natural body of flesh and yes, we will have a body like Jesus.

As Job said, yet in my flesh shall I see God. But not natural flesh.

BBob,

nite................:sleeping_2:

I agree they won't be "flesh" which is corruptible. The Bible says we will have spiritual bodies...BUT...Jesus' body was able to eat, walk, be clung to and touched. They are most definately physical in nature, too. The greek for flesh is simply "meat". Meat decays...our resurrected bodies won't.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I agree they won't be "flesh" which is corruptible. The Bible says we will have spiritual bodies...BUT...Jesus' body was able to eat, walk, be clung to and touched. They are most definately physical in nature, too. The greek for flesh is simply "meat". Meat decays...our resurrected bodies won't.

You are correct, webdog. Jesus' body was indeed physical. Scripture tells us it was 'flesh and bone." The blood was absent! He had shed it all on the cross for mankind.

Scripture declares one day 'we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."

We will have physical bodies, and yes, I do believe they will be as Christ's resurrected body... flesh and bone. An incorruptible flesh... a glorified flesh.

 

[LeBuick]

You are correct, webdog. Jesus' body was indeed physical. Scripture tells us it was 'flesh and bone." The blood was absent! He had shed it all on the cross for mankind.

Scripture declares one day 'we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is."

We will have physical bodies, and yes, I do believe they will be as Christ's resurrected body... flesh and bone. An incorruptible flesh... a glorified flesh.

Now those are shouting words... :godisgood: :jesus: :thumbs:

i am assuming you meant not an incorruptible flesh...

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Now those are shouting words... :godisgood: :jesus: :thumbs:

i am assuming you meant not an incorruptible flesh...

Nope. Meant we will have an incorruptible flesh like Christ's.

 

[skypair]

Revelation was a vision John saw while on the Isle of Patmos... Many years after the Church started in that upper room on Pentacost.

The Church was already established before John's vision of the New Jerusalem.

Good point, sfiC. :thumbs:

skypair

 

[skypair]

BBob,

You musta got real busy so this is the question that begs to be answered by your theology:

OK, what covenant was Paul talking about when he said "covenant when He shall take away their sins?" Rom 11:27

See, this suggests another covenant -- yet FUTURE -- in which God takes away the sins of the "Israel" that Paul says "will all be saved" but aren't saved at the time of his writing. Cause according to Paul's next verse (11:28) they are STILL "enemies for the gospel's sake" ... so obviously the "Deliverer" hasn't taken away their sins under that covenant yet.

skypair

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob,

You musta got real busy so this is the question that begs to be answered by your theology:

See, this suggests another covenant -- yet FUTURE -- in which God takes away the sins of the "Israel" that Paul says "will all be saved" but aren't saved at the time of his writing. Cause according to Paul's next verse (11:28) they are STILL "enemies for the gospel's sake" ... so obviously the "Deliverer" hasn't taken away their sins under that covenant yet.

skypair

Jer 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Oh, but those who received Him, including the Apostles and many others were saved.

Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own,(Israel) and his own received him not.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him,(Israel) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his nameIsrael)

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by standingfirminChrist
Revelation was a vision John saw while on the Isle of Patmos... Many years after the Church started in that upper room on Pentacost.

The Church was already established before John's vision of the New Jerusalem.

Good point, sfiC. :thumbs:

skypair

What does this have to do with New Jerusalem being the bride and the church being the bride???

We haven't been resurrected as of yet either and John wrote about it. YOu want me to quote anymore??

BBob,:BangHead:

 

[Dr. L.T. Ketchum]

The New Heaven is the New Earth​

[FONT=&quot]Why will there be no more sea in the new earth?[/FONT]


Leon Morris in his commentary on Revelation; Tyndale New Testament Commentaries published by Eerdman’s makes the following statement about this:

“The sea is never still, a symbol of changefulness. And it is the source of evil, for the beast comes up from it (xiii. I). The wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt’ (Is. Lvii.20). We must moreover bear in mind that in antiquity men did not have the means of coping successfully with the sea’s dangers and they regarded it as an unnatural element, a place of storms and danger.”

Although this is true, it is definitely spiritualizing the text. The intent is that there will be no large bodies of water that will separate one nation from another. In that sense, there will be no separate nations on earth. We all will be one people (21:3), united by faith and part of the New Creation.

“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2 Corinthians 5:17).

The next event after the White throne Judgment will be the creation of a new Heaven and New Earth. The previous heaven and earth has been consumed by the judgment fire of God. The New Heaven\Earth will not be a re-creation of the old. It will be “new” (kainos, kahee-nos') in kind. The details of this new, but different Heaven\Earth are given in Revelation chapters 21 and 22.
According to Revelation 21:3, what makes Heaven Heaven? Heaven is Heaven because God dwells there. Everything else is just extensions and blessings of His presence. The fullness of the Godhead will dwell in the glorified Body of Jesus Christ. Notice that the Godhead will be unified in Christ. This proves that God is not three individual Gods (Tri-theism), but one God in three parts (personages). He is a Trinity. In the New Heaven (when we see God) we will see Him in the Person of Jesus Christ “the Lamb.”

1. Revelation 21:5-7
2. Revelation 21:22-23
3. Revelation 22:1 and 3
​

Why does John describe the New Jerusalem as a bride? This is revealed in Revelation 21:9-10:

“9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God” (Revelation 21:9-10).

This refers to the Church, which will hold an eternally exalted position in the New Creation. She is the Lamb’s wife now (21:9), but she remains “adorned for her husband . . . as a bride.” I believe the intent is to show a contrast between the great “whore” of Apostasy of Revelation 17 and the true Church of Christ. Notice the similarities in the introduction to these two visions:

“1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns” (Revelation 17:1-7).

“And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” (Revelation 21:9-14).

Centrally, that which differentiates these two (the New Jerusalem from the New Babylon) is that the New Jerusalem is “adorned” with the “glory of God” (Rev. 21:11). Babylon never was anything more than a gaudy, painted whore with a golden cup in her hand collecting her harlot’s fare from the corruption of the lives of those she deceived and manipulated into her bed of apostasy.

“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication” (Revelation 17:4).

What is the significance of the three uses of the statement, “it is done”? There are three verses in Scripture that state, “It is done” or “it is finished.” Each relate to a different aspect of God’s judicial program. The first is found in John 19:30.

“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost” (John 19:30).

This refers to the payment of the sin penalty in the body of Jesus Christ, which propitiated God and justified and reconciled believers.

“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2).

“18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation” (2 Corinthians 5:18-19).

The second use of this term is Revelation 16:17.

“And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done” (Revelation 16:17).

This refers to the final judgment of the tribulation period and the return of Jesus Christ to establish His Kingdom on earth. The third use is in Revelation 21:6.

“And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely” (Revelation 21:6).

This refers to the final judgment of the old creation in destruction by fire. Time itself is now ended as a parenthesis in eternity. Christ was the beginning (Author) of that creation and He will be its Consummator.

“16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist” (Colossians 1:16-17).

What will the New Heaven be like? This is detailed in Revelation 21:4:

“And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away” (Revelation 21:4).

God explains heaven from the perspective of the lives we presently live (this is the only perspective we can understand it from in that it is the only point of reference that we can relate to). Therefore, He explains it from the negative in the things that will be absent in Heaven, but are part of the curse in this life. There will be no more tears, no more death, no more sorrow, no more crying, no more pain. The summation of all this is that there is no more curse.

“And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him” (Revelation 22:3).

 

[skypair]

Oh, but those who received Him, including the Apostles and many others were saved.

Uh-oh. BUSTED!!! :tonofbricks:

Paul said that they would receive the covenant LATER ! Not even by the time he had penned these words had they received this covenant (11:27)!!!! When he penned these words, "Israel," who was to receive a covenant to "take away their sins" (11:27), was still an enemy on account of the gospel. Rom 11:28. "Comprende', senor?? :laugh: Got another guess?? :laugh:

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him,(Israel) NOT to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name (Israel) NOT

Bobby, we're not talking about the church here, bro. We're talking in Rom 11 about RELIGIOUS access to God. The old covenant was "cut off" -- the new covenant was kept. Concentrate! It's the JEWS in view in Rom 11. "Israelites" like Paul, Rom 11:1. God's original people, 11:2.

skypair