Originally posted by TC:
You complain that Jesus contradicts himself in the NKJV and other MV's, yet, He does the same thing in the KJV. If you read it carefully, you will that in verse 5, in the KJV, "My witness is not true." And in the next one, Jesus says "yet my record is true:" You cannot put down the NKJV without putting down the KJV - for it does the same exact thing.
TC, you are right that I complain Jesus contradict Himself in the NKJV and MVs,
NOT the KJV.
TC, you are wrong! Read CAREFULLY --
Witness =
not true, but record = true! The KJV shows that Jesus did
not contradict Himself. The KJV is clearest than NKJV and MVs.
Now, comes your real issue. Different Bibles use alternative English words for the same Greek word. So what? The KJV uses different English words to translate the same Greek word. Yet, you do not complain about the KJV not being consistant. If that is all you can come up with , better try harder (just like Avis car rental commercial) next time.
TC, did you read my previous post concerning a few English words for same Greek word?
The KJV said witness and record - no contradiction!
MVs said testimony and testimony; witness and witness. They contradicted reflecting to the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
So, are you saying that the English dictionary has more authority than the Greek dictionary (which I posted) in defining Greek words? I will take what the Greek text and Greek dictionary says over your interpretation of it.
Michelle has a good point because witness and record are for one Greek word; a Greek word for many English words. When you read witness and record, you understand what these words mean.
HankD quoted:
The word "witness" and "record" is the same in the TR Greek of both passages.
HankD, you are right. You know the definition difference between witness and record.
I said that MVs contradict the doctrine of Jesus Christ. When MVs contradicted 2 passages, therefore Jesus Christ contradicts Himself.
Michelle quoted:
Just some insight for you TC - we speak, know and understand ENGLISH, even if one were to translate the Greek into ENGLISH. Quite clearly, these two ENGLISH WORDS that can be rendered for the SAME GREEK WORD, mean TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things. Context my dear....context and truth. Modern scholars should know better the difference. They chose to translate that Greek word to the word that is contrary to context and truth.
What is nonsense, is the fact that it has been shown to you all the definitions of these two words, and how they are DIFFERENT enouph in meaning that makes a very important DISTINCTION. These words do not MEAN the same thing, nor is the SAME MEANING in the context and truth.
Michelle, you are correct. Amen!
Robycop3 quoted:
The Greek word that the KJV renders as both 'witness' and 'record' is 'martureo', which I assume is an infinitive, and it means "to bear witness, to testify, to give an accurate report", etc.(Dr. Bob, correct me if I've left out any other important definition) Actually, bear witness and bear record meant virtually the same thing in archaic English; I think the main difference being that the 'record' was always written
The KJV translators were wise to select right words for English-speaking people.
Michelle quoted:
It is not a King James Only argument. It is defending the truth of God's words of truth against that which has ALTERED it and made Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life, to lie in the very scriptures themselves, which are the truth, and bear record that he is a liar, in the versions that have so rendered it as such.
I agree.
Robycop3 quoted:
The NKJV remains correct also.
Wrong! At my work I have a record book. Employee asked me to look at list of person signed. I showed him that RECORD. She found who did. Witness or testimony: ORAL response! You know the distinction between oral and written.
Bro Tony quoted:
In fact the case could be made that the NKJV translators showed more integrity in their translation
More integrity? Absolutely not.
HankD quoted:
Let me repeat michelle, the word in the original Greek is the same, there is no “these two words” in the inspired text, it has not been "ALTERED".
Incorrect! The KJV translators were wise to select right different words for one SAME Greek word. NKJV translators are unwise to select SAME words for SAME Greek word.
SAME = Same = Contradictory!
Different = same = no contradoctory!
Michelle quoted:
the NKJV has rendered the Greek word to an INACCURATE English WORD that shows that Jesus Christ is lying
Amen!
C4K quoted:
The KJV translators knew Greek and Hebrew better than English? I would LOVE to see evidence for that!
They were very wiser than "TODAY" translators of MVs and NKJV.
Russell55 quoted:
The bottom line is that the TR uses the same word in these verses, so when the NKJV uses the same word to translate them, you can't claim that shows the NKJV doesn't follow the TR.
Wrong! They translated incorrectly.
C4K quoted:
I think it is unfortunate that people could see Jesus as a liar in these verse
MVs did, not the KJV.
Bro Tony quoted:
The Greek says what it says and the translators of the NKJV were faithful to the text
That is misleading and mis-information! They were not faithful to the text because of 2,000+ infected words including 40% non-TR.
Michelle quoted:
My hatred is toward those things that have altered and corrupted the words of the Lord. You have proven with your very own statements, that your loyalty is with the translators who have INACCURATELY translated the words of the Lord and have made Jesus Christ a liar, because of it. And you say you love the words of God and truth? Baloney! You have made is apparent that you love compromise.
Michelle, you are right! Amen!
GeneMBridges quoted:
Actually, you are the one blinded by your ignorance of the context of the passage and your desire to tow the party line rather than simply admit that Askjo posted a spurious remark.
Spurious remark? Please read CAREFULLY my previous posts and THINK doubly!
Ziggy quoted:
Sounds good, Askjo, UNTIL anyone looks at the Greek of the TR (*any* edition) that underlies the KJV:
Jn 5:31 KJV = I bear witness / TR = MARTURW (for Robycopy: Present Active Subjunctive, 1st person singular in context following “if”); my witness = MARTURIA MOU
Jn 8:14 KJV = I bear record/ TR = MARTURW; my record = MARTURIA MOU
Unfortunately for your hypothesis, Jesus said the *exact same words* each time....and it is the “words” that are preserved, right, Askjo? You *do* continue to appeal to the TR, Askjo -- is the TR *wrong* here?
Anyone using the KJV do not read the Greek words here! They need to understand what they read in ENGLISH.
