NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
We are on page 14 and getting nowhere.
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New KJV
- Thread starter Askjo
- Start date
pastorjeff
New Member
Thasnks for the fun guys. Glad we got that one settled. 
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But they didn't have a distince difference back when the KJV translators first used them. Back then, they were used synonymously. I looked them up. 'Tis true. The KJV translators were using what were then synonyms.
The meaning of "record" has changed since then, and now means pretty much soley "something that is set down in writing, or on disc, or something", meaning. Back then, that wasn't the case.
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These words have not changed in meaning, as the definition I provided shows this. Why are you ignoring this? The CONTEXT of these passages, and the scriptural truths reveal also that the NKJV translated the WRONG English word and shows that Jesus Christ is lying. And to make matters worse, those who look these words up in a modern dictionary come away without any help in understanding the truth and and are encouraged to believe the lie that this evidences in this verse, in this version. Please, please look at the content, and context of these passages, and the scriptural truth concerning Jesus Christ and in light of the definitions of these words.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
But they didn't have a distince difference back when the KJV translators first used them. Back then, they were used synonymously. I looked them up. 'Tis true. The KJV translators were using what were then synonyms.
The meaning of "record" has changed since then, and now means pretty much soley "something that is set down in writing, or on disc, or something", meaning. Back then, that wasn't the case.
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These words have not changed in meaning, as the definition I provided shows this. Why are you ignoring this? The CONTEXT of these passages, and the scriptural truths reveal also that the NKJV translated the WRONG English word and shows that Jesus Christ is lying. And to make matters worse, those who look these words up in a modern dictionary come away without any help in understanding the truth and and are encouraged to believe the lie that this evidences in this verse, in this version. Please, please look at the content, and context of these passages, and the scriptural truth concerning Jesus Christ and in light of the definitions of these words.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, Jesus doesn't lie, therefore the Word of God, whether found in manuscripts, the KJV (using synonymous words) or the NKJV must be accepted as the way they were inspired in the originals.
Since so many manuscripts agree we can assume the originals did too. Therefore, what is found in the Word of God in Greek, 17th century English and 21st century English is obviously what God wanted written.
Obviously, the originals were written that way, so obviously that is the way it was intended. If you insist that the KJV uses words of different meaning, then the KJV is wrong because the Greek USES THE SAME WORD!
We translate the Bible from the old manuscripts (including the translation of the KJV), not from another translation. A fallacy that will result in a translation with compounded problems.
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Since so many manuscripts agree we can assume the originals did too. Therefore, what is found in the Word of God in Greek, 17th century English and 21st century English is obviously what God wanted written.
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Obviously God did not want the wrong word translated either, to make himself to be a liar.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Since so many manuscripts agree we can assume the originals did too. Therefore, what is found in the Word of God in Greek, 17th century English and 21st century English is obviously what God wanted written.
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Obviously God did not want the wrong word translated either, to make himself to be a liar.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Askjo: “At my work I have a record book. Employee asked me to look at list of person signed. I showed him that RECORD. She found who did. Witness or testimony: ORAL response! You know the distinction between oral and written.”
I certainly know the difference....do you? Note the following:
Jn 1:32 KJV “And John bare record, *SAYING* ...
Is this ORAL or WRITTEN?
Jn 8:13 KJV The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself: thy record is not true”
Was Jesus SPEAKING or WRITING?
Ac 10:43 KJV “To him give all the prophets WITNESS...”
Was this prophetic witness ORAL or WRITTEN?
Askjo: “Anyone using the KJV do not read the Greek words here! They need to understand what they read in ENGLISH.”
Precisely! And they need to read the ENGLISH words above and stop spouting off nonsense that “record” somehow means WRITTEN testimony and that “witness” means ORAL testimony, when the scriptures themselves show that the two terms are INTERCHANGEABLE (and why not? they both translate the SAME Greek underlying word!).
I certainly know the difference....do you? Note the following:
Jn 1:32 KJV “And John bare record, *SAYING* ...
Is this ORAL or WRITTEN?
Jn 8:13 KJV The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself: thy record is not true”
Was Jesus SPEAKING or WRITING?
Ac 10:43 KJV “To him give all the prophets WITNESS...”
Was this prophetic witness ORAL or WRITTEN?
Askjo: “Anyone using the KJV do not read the Greek words here! They need to understand what they read in ENGLISH.”
Precisely! And they need to read the ENGLISH words above and stop spouting off nonsense that “record” somehow means WRITTEN testimony and that “witness” means ORAL testimony, when the scriptures themselves show that the two terms are INTERCHANGEABLE (and why not? they both translate the SAME Greek underlying word!).
Michelle, we can look at the content of the scriptures all day long and just because it does not seem to make sense to us, we are NOT to add or change words to the original manuscripts to make it fit our liking. God inspired it for a reason, that way, using the same WORD in Greek; therefore, our opinion of what it SHOULD be is of no consequence. God has His reasons and I for one, will not question Him.
You are trying to put your own opinion onto what was originally inspired, when it is clear the Greek manuscripts used the SAME WORD!
You are trying to put your own opinion onto what was originally inspired, when it is clear the Greek manuscripts used the SAME WORD!
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Obviously, the originals were written that way, so obviously that is the way it was intended. If you insist that the KJV uses words of different meaning, then the KJV is wrong because the Greek USES THE SAME WORD!
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There is no doubt about it being the same Greek word. What is in error and wrong, is the translators choice of the INACCURATE English word to translate that GREEK word, INSTEAD of the ACCURATE English word for that Greek word in that context. This they did not do, unfortunately.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Obviously, the originals were written that way, so obviously that is the way it was intended. If you insist that the KJV uses words of different meaning, then the KJV is wrong because the Greek USES THE SAME WORD!
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There is no doubt about it being the same Greek word. What is in error and wrong, is the translators choice of the INACCURATE English word to translate that GREEK word, INSTEAD of the ACCURATE English word for that Greek word in that context. This they did not do, unfortunately.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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Precisely! And they need to read the ENGLISH words above and stop spouting off nonsense that “record” somehow means WRITTEN testimony and that “witness” means ORAL testimony, when the scriptures themselves show that the two terms are INTERCHANGEABLE (and why not? they both translate the SAME Greek underlying word!).
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Actually record means both - oral and written, and also means being performed. What is in error is the usage of the word "witness" instead of "record" in that verse, in that passage.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Precisely! And they need to read the ENGLISH words above and stop spouting off nonsense that “record” somehow means WRITTEN testimony and that “witness” means ORAL testimony, when the scriptures themselves show that the two terms are INTERCHANGEABLE (and why not? they both translate the SAME Greek underlying word!).
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Actually record means both - oral and written, and also means being performed. What is in error is the usage of the word "witness" instead of "record" in that verse, in that passage.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
The English word does not change based on context. The KJV was correct, because as shown, the old dictionaries proved that the words were synomymous. Therefore, as long as they were synomymous they mean the same thing. Today, the English has changed---sorry, just fact.
The translators did a good job---on BOTH translations.
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The English word does not change based on context. The KJV was correct, because as shown, the old dictionaries proved that the words were synomymous. Therefore, as long as they were synomymous they mean the same thing. Today, the English has changed---sorry, just fact.
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Actually, you again, are presuming the English word "record" has changed in meaning, to which it most definately has not, as it has been shown, not only in the English language, but in the scriptural truths and what they reveal also.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
The English word does not change based on context. The KJV was correct, because as shown, the old dictionaries proved that the words were synomymous. Therefore, as long as they were synomymous they mean the same thing. Today, the English has changed---sorry, just fact.
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Actually, you again, are presuming the English word "record" has changed in meaning, to which it most definately has not, as it has been shown, not only in the English language, but in the scriptural truths and what they reveal also.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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IOW - I can't hear you. Even though the newer English dictionary I have is different than the much older Oxford English dictionary (proving the word has changed in meaning over the years), I am going to hang on to my interpretation anyway.
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As it has been shown, your interpretation is INACCURATE AND WRONG and makes Jesus Christ a liar.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
IOW - I can't hear you. Even though the newer English dictionary I have is different than the much older Oxford English dictionary (proving the word has changed in meaning over the years), I am going to hang on to my interpretation anyway.
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As it has been shown, your interpretation is INACCURATE AND WRONG and makes Jesus Christ a liar.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
No, no one is presuming. We've looked it up in really old dictionaries. It had a different semantic range back then than it did now, and evidence of that has been shown, including quotes from Shakespeare given.
Presuming is asserting something as true with no evidence to back it up.
(Perhaps I was a bit hasty when I said no one is doing that....)