• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

New KJV

Bro Tony

New Member
I did no such thing, but rather it is you, who are trying to shoot my foot, as I know the Lord speaks to me through His English words that He has so wonderfully provided, regardless of what your personal OPINION of it is. You say the English scriptures named the KJB are not understood in todays modern English? You are so absolutely wrong, that if it were not the saddest thing I have read today, I would be lauphing.
Let's see, you want to talk about reading something sad. I would encourage you to go back and read your ridiculous posts. And I paraphrase--- "Jesus spoke English", "The dictionaries of today do not render different meanings than the older English dictionaries", "Jesus is the modern name for Jesus and is for us because we speak modern English, but we don't need modern English translations because 400 year old Elizabethian English is easily understandable for everyone today, even though the KJV used by we KJVOist is not the original 1611 version...etc etc etc.

You are a sad, sad diluted individual who has bought into a lie that the KJV is the only legitamate version of the Word of God. You are to be pitied and your teachings are to be feared in the church. It is my intention to have no further attempts at trying to reason with the insanity you espouse, that is unless it again get to this level of insanity.

Bro Tony
 

Johnv

New Member
Michelle, whether you think it sad or not, it is fact. Not opinion, but fact. The English of the 1600's is not the form of English that is commonly spoken today. The most common forms of English today are: Queen's English (spoken by the majority of people in the UK), American Business English (spoken by most people worldwide where English is not the first language), and American Common English (the type of English spoken by us here on the baord).
 

michelle

New Member
--------------------------------------------------
Michelle, whether you think it sad or not, it is fact. Not opinion, but fact. The English of the 1600's is not the form of English that is commonly spoken today. The most common forms of English today are: Queen's English (spoken by the majority of people in the UK), American Business English (spoken by most people worldwide where English is not the first language), and American Common English (the type of English spoken by us here on the baord).
--------------------------------------------------


Yet again, you both have failed to understand the point being made, and turned this into another KJVO vs. MV's. And you blame this on me and others? You are unbelievable.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

GeneMBridges

New Member
Sorry, michelle, it was your buddy Askjo that turned this into a KJVO vs. MV thread. (The same Askjo that posted openly that the NASB is not the Word of God not one day ago. :rolleyes:
 

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by Ziggy:
Askjo: “At my work I have a record book. Employee asked me to look at list of person signed. I showed him that RECORD. She found who did. Witness or testimony: ORAL response! You know the distinction between oral and written.”

I certainly know the difference....do you? Note the following:

Jn 1:32 KJV “And John bare record, *SAYING* ...
Is this ORAL or WRITTEN?

Jn 8:13 KJV The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself: thy record is not true”
Was Jesus SPEAKING or WRITING?

Ac 10:43 KJV “To him give all the prophets WITNESS...”
Was this prophetic witness ORAL or WRITTEN?

Askjo: “Anyone using the KJV do not read the Greek words here! They need to understand what they read in ENGLISH.”

Precisely! And they need to read the ENGLISH words above and stop spouting off nonsense that “record” somehow means WRITTEN testimony and that “witness” means ORAL testimony, when the scriptures themselves show that the two terms are INTERCHANGEABLE (and why not? they both translate the SAME Greek underlying word!).
Ziggy, never mind.
 

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by Ziggy:
DeborahB: "Does the NKJV just translate a few words more literally than the KJV? Or does it leave out phrases like all the other MV's?"

Previously not addressed in responses to your question, but no, the NKJV does *not* "leave out" any words, phrases, or verses such as might be the case when comparing the KJV to various modern versions.
How many words did NKJV omit?

22 omissions of hell
23 omissions of blood
44 omissions of repent
48 omissions of heaven
51 omissions of God
66 omissions of Lord
 

Baptist in Richmond

Active Member
Originally posted by michelle:
You are wrong, as this generation, and generations past, Know their Lord and Saviour by the name of Jesus Christ. Go to any church on Sunday, and read the English scriptures, and His name is Jesus Christ, NOT JOSHUA.
Actually, he is right.
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by michelle:
--------------------------------------------------
No, no one is presuming. We've looked it up in really old dictionaries. It had a different semantic range back then than it did now, and evidence of that has been shown, including quotes from Shakespeare given.
--------------------------------------------------

A common dictionary of today proves NOTHING. That is the problem, it was not WRITTEN TODAY. It was written in 1611. Dictionaries from that time show different definitions.

Quote some Shakespeare that proves otherwise.
I have posted the English definition of this word from a common dictionary today, to which shows it has not changed one bit. Quotes from Shakespear only affirm this.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Deborah B.:
Does the NKJV just translate a few words more literally than the KJV?
Absolutely not! When the NKJV follows the TR, the NKJV has 40% non-TR words. On other hand, the NKJV has 2,000 infected words that God did not preserve. </font>[/QUOTE]Deborah, do not believe this. I have an interlinear TR and the NKJV follows it very accurately.

On the other hand, the KJV is not as accurate to the TR. Usually when the KJV translators didn't know which manuscript to use they resorted to the Latin Vulgate.
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by michelle:
As it has been shown, your interpretation is INACCURATE AND WRONG and makes Jesus Christ a liar.
Really? I wasn't aware the Jesus Christ (which, btw, is not his name), spoke English. </font>[/QUOTE]Johnv, I'm ashamed of you. You know good and well if the KJV was good enough for Paul it is good enough for us. :rolleyes:
 

GeneMBridges

New Member
Heavens, michelle...

You've talked yourself into so many circles you've painted yourself into a huge corner on this one:

Your first post read:


record: 1. to write down for future use 2. to register, as on a graph 3. to register (sound or visual images) on a disc, tape, etc. for later reproduction - n. 1. the condition of being recorded 2. anything written down and preserved; account of events 3. a) the known facts about anyone or anything b) the recorded offenses or crimes of a person 4. a grooved disc for playing on a phonograph 5. the best official performance acheived.

This clearly shows that you ascribe the meaning as something WRITTEN.

Now, examples I cited from Shakespeare and the Oxford Dictionary of the English language, which you say prove you are correct show the OPPOSITE, that "record" (n). in late middle and early modern (1611) English is that it is INTERCHANGEABLE with the word "witness," as in "oral testimony."


In your earlier posts you wrote of "witness"

witness: 1. evidence, testimony 2. one who saw, or can give a firsthand account of, something 3.one who testifies in court 4. one who observes, and attests to, a signing, etc. -vt. 1. to testify to 2. to serve as evidence of 3. to act as witness of 4. to be present at - bear witness to testify.

What is nonsense, is the fact that it has been shown to you all the definitions of these two words, and how they are DIFFERENT enouph in meaning that makes a very important DISTINCTION

Then you turned around from defending the use of "record" to say that the problem was with the word "witness." For heaven's sake, michelle, make up your mind!

Witness = record in 1611 English; they are synonyms. (I assume you understand the definition of the word "synonym.") They represent the same word in the TR. If anything the rendering of them as the same word in MV's is more true to the TR than the KJV. Why? Because 1 word does not equal 2 words, though, in Early Modern English the words witness and record meant the exact same thing. NOW, however, they do NOT. Language changes, michelle. Consonantal shifts occur, making hard sounds softer. Usages change. Spellings even change over time. (If we are to believe Askjo that the words of the KJV are 100% preserved, then we should all be sure we stop using "s" and use "f" instead, "f" is sometimes used in Middle English and Early Modern English instead of the modern "s.", and words are composed of letters. Since all the jots and tittles don't pass away, then even the most recent KJV update is wrong, because of spelling changes from the original!). (That's what the word "archaic" often means in the dictionary). In this case the KJV's use of the word "record" reflects the archaic usage of the term as found in Shakespeare. (The use of Shakespearean quotes does NOT support your position, because your position says that the words are DIFFERENT in meaning, NOT the same.
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by michelle:
--------------------------------------------------
Really? I wasn't aware the Jesus Christ (which, btw, is not his name), spoke English.
--------------------------------------------------

If Jesus doesn't speak English, how is it then you know what he has said, or any other English speaking person for that matter?


love in the precious name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
WHAT? Is this a misprint? Am I reading it wrong?

I actually thought the response about you saying Jesus spoke English was tongue in cheek, I guess I was wrong.

Michelle, what language was the Bible WRITTEN IN when it was inspired?
 

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by Phillip:
Deborah, do not believe this.
Go ahead! If so, it is not my problem. I researched modern versions and the NKJV for about 15 years. Deborah, I warn you to read 2 Cor. 2:17 (KJV).
I have an interlinear TR and the NKJV follows it very accurately.
You apparently avoid the factual documents and IGNORE them.
On the other hand, the KJV is not as accurate to the TR. Usually when the KJV translators didn't know which manuscript to use they resorted to the Latin Vulgate.
These KJV translators had higher qualifications than "TODAY" translators for MVs because the KJV translators' life was at risk, but "Today" translators are happy to get paid -$$$$! Greedy!
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
It amazes me how time after time the KJVO's do not take a look at the Greek or Hebrew and make a comparison. But no they compare it to some other translation. They don't know that you are supposeed to use a standard to compare something to. But instead the KJVO's are not equippeed to make that kind of a judgment. They simply continue like a good Mormon and say their stuff long enough and hard enough hoping it will be believed.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Askjo:
These KJV translators had higher qualifications than "TODAY" translators for MVs because the KJV translators' life was at risk, but "Today" translators are happy to get paid -$$$$! Greedy! [/QUOTE]

Baby baptizers are more qualified? The companies had to pay money to get a modern translation. How much does the publishing company pay for royalties to print a KJV? If I remember right the KJV and other Bibles cost the same. Use your brain sometime. It's not rocket science.

[ October 12, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: gb93433 ]
 

Phillip

<b>Moderator</b>
Originally posted by Askjo:
These KJV translators had higher qualifications than "TODAY" translators for MVs because the KJV translators' life was at risk, but "Today" translators are happy to get paid -$$$$! Greedy!
You will say ANYTHING to put the KJV on a higher level. If I remember my history; the translators of the KJV were well taken care of.
 

Askjo

New Member
Originally posted by Phillip:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Deborah B.:
Does the NKJV just translate a few words more literally than the KJV?
Absolutely not! When the NKJV follows the TR, the NKJV has 40% non-TR words. On other hand, the NKJV has 2,000 infected words that God did not preserve. </font>[/QUOTE]Deborah, do not believe this. I have an interlinear TR and the NKJV follows it very accurately. </font>[/QUOTE]Phillip, look at NKJV on James 5:16 saying, "confess your trespasses" instead of "confess your faults" in the KJV.

Faults are NOT the same as trespasses.

"Confessing your trespasses" sounds like ROMAN CATHOLIC doctrine.

On the NKJV you look at the OT - Job 3:8 saying, "leviathan" instead of "mourning" in the KJV. Same meaning?
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Askjo:
I researched modern versions and the NKJV for about 15 years. Deborah, I warn you to read 2 Cor. 2:17 (KJV).

Why so slow? Some get more done in two days than others do in twenty years.

You ignorance shows you need to take hermeneutics though.

It would help if by taking a hermeneutics class you would learn the meaning of context and to interpret scripture in light of its historical context. But instead you take liberty with the text trying to convince anyone that will listen you are correct. You cannot take a passage of scripture and get it to say somethiung it does not. That's simply not honest nor good scholarhip.
 
Top