New Year’s, The Second Coming, The Thessalonians, & Preterism

That is the way it should be because no one can know the day or the hour.

"Soon/quickly" - the preterist pivotal case, yet preterism will not allow an acceptable and alternative view of "soon/quickly" as a viable hermeneutical tool as they (preterists) do with a myriad of other words, phrases and passages.

And this is why preterism must allegorize anything that implies a literal, visible and bodily return of Christ because such a return was not seen in AD70.

These "eyeballs" (a term I did not use) and clouds, I did not "scrape up" but are Scripture.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​

The scripture makes use of "every eye" to let the reader know that is exactly how He will be seen, with the eyes. The context of Revelation 1 proves that it is Jesus Christ who will return and not a substitue such as Titus, a Roman general and that He will be visibly seen with eyes, the same way He was seen when He left from the Mount of Olives:

Revelation 1

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.​

The details of the manner of His return was explained in Acts 1:9-11 (context included).

Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.​

In verse 9 we are told that He was taken up out of their sight and received into a cloud.
In verse 10 they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up.
In verse 11 they are still gazing up into heaven.
In verse 11 we are also told that this same Jesus will return in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Words such as Sight, looked, gazing prove that this was a visible happening.

He (Jesus Christ) was visibly seen going into heaven.
His ascension was visible and bodily, He passed though the air,
He will return in like manner.

1 Thessalonians 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.​

The fulfillment has yet to be seen.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.​

I believe all that can be said pertaining to the line of reasoning of this thread has been said but if you believe otherwise and/or want to the continue the debate, OK.

Otherwise if there is no provocation (I'll give you the last word), I am content to let the debate stand as is and let the readers consider the possibility of preterism in the light of the debate, scripture presented and hermeneutic exercised.

Thanks Logos1

HankD

 

Please enlighten me on this....

We are now in the reign/rule of Christ upon this earth...

We have had wars ablolished, all nations believe in 1 true God, peace established everywhere, no more famines, disease sickness?

Did the Bible lie every time that it mentioned all of that?

Did Isaiah WRONGLY see the glorious future Kingdom to be established on earth by Jesus?

Did Both paul and John "miss" the truth that you have found?

IN THAT DAY the prophets all forsaw the coming reign of the messiah upon the earth, they saw it it where ALL peoples would know that God of Isreal only true God, as that would be ONLY God worshipped upon all earth at that time...

Did we all miss THAT TIME?

 

Thanks Logos1.

Your brother in Christ
HankD

 

Dear Brother Hank,

I like your silent response in #24 today. I gave up on Logos1 months ago when he failed
my several attempts to obtain his explanation of how the martyrs in heaven could be told they must "wait a short time" before God will "avenge their blood on those dwelling on the earth"...that this "short time involved the death of all those who must still be killed" for their testimony on the earth.

Believers still being killed is the primary evidence that Christ has not yet "split the Mt. of Olives" and destroyed the wicked on the Day He becomes King of the entire earth. Logos1 is incorrect in claiming "NOT one mountain will be left". Every island will be moved
out of place; but not every mountain will be destroyed.

Not only is Logos1 incorrect in his interpretation of Scripture, even though he often shows a respect for its being without error, he denies that Christ gave explicit signs by
which believers will "know the end is near". We cannot know the "End is Near" as long
as believers are still being killed...until the required sign of the Two Witnessing showing
"God's Kingdom Power and Christ's Authority for exactly 1260 days before the mystery
of God is finished and the 7th Trumpet is about to sound that God's wrath has come".

So silence is the only way to respond to such "twisting" of the Scripture that denies
"end of time saints will know when the End is Near". Matt.24:33.
Mel at www.lastday.net

 

Thanks Bro Mel, whether right or wrong to what degree, I believe Bro Logos1 is another sincere soul searching the scriptures for the truth.

HankD

 

So how was the blood of those martyrs killed by the Romans before AD 70 avenged? And who avenges the blood of all the countless millions of martyrs slain since AD 70 in the wonderful 'new heavens and new earth' which has been around since that time? Just wondering.

You are very easy with calling other people heretics. People in glass house and all that..... To those of us who espouse sensible eschatology, it makes not the slightest difference whether Revelation was written before or after AD 70, but the evidence for the later date is very powerful.

Steve

 

[Bump!]
Logos 1 Seems to have gone all quiet.