News: Atheist Scout given a week to declare belief

My children are in girl scouts. Here's the promist and how it's explained to the kids.

On my honor I will try-This means that yu promise to do your very best.

To serve God: There are many ways to serve God. Yoou might go to a religious service or live in peace with other people.

And my country: You can serve your country by saying the Pledge of Allegiance, reminding parents and other adults to vote on Election Day, or even sending a holiday card to military people overseas.

To help people at all times: You can carry a package for a neighbor, or help a friend with her homework. You might plant a tree or visit a nursing home with your troop.

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be honest and fair, friendly and helpful, considerate and caring, courageous and strong, and responsible for what I say and do, and to respect myself and others, respect authority, use resources wisely, make the world a better place, and be a sister to every Girl Scout.

The girls repeat the girl scout pledge (the upon my honor thing) and the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of each and every meeting. If this kid is 19 and has been in it he knows what it says. If he doesn't agree he should leave and not be part of it. That's it.
I wouldn't say without knowing him that he has any "motives". Maybe it's just a 19 yr. old that's been involved in this, loves it, and doesn't want to leave because of his beliefs. All of the attention is going to only serve to make him feel "persecuted" and probably strengthen his belief that he is right, or he'll be too embarassed to admit he was wrong so he'll stick to it.
Very sad.
Gina

 

I didn't think anyone had a problem with the policy. Sure, some of us are a little confused and disgusted by the events (the young man's faith or lack of it apparantly being a non-issue when it came to awarding him Eagle Scout; the implication that he doesn't have to believe anything, just say that he does; that somehow a week is enough time to come to a religious decision; that any deity or higher power will do), but no one has argued that the Scouts can't restrict atheists' involvement or membership.

Certainly, they have every right to kick this boy out of their organization; no one's disputed that. And I don't think anyone has argued that because what the organization is doing (see the above specific points) is ever so slightly despicable, the young man should be allowed to stay in. Two separate issues. I should think that would be quite clear.

 

This is from the article. He says he wouldn't be a good Scout if he "lies." Well, in my opinion, he isn't being a good Scout by not following their rules.

Just my 2 1/2 cents worth.

2Timothy

 

WHOOSH!!!!!
The sound of a point that went right over my head!
Yes, that is very ridiculous, to just try to make someone say it and not care if they believe it.
Gina

 

And truly, this young man has a decision to make. Although it does sound as though he's already made it. But regardless, I see no problem with challenging their requirement. If the implication made in that article (which is that he only has to profess belief in something, not actually have it AND that it doesn't matter what that something is) is accurate, then I'd say the requirement is moot and should be challenged.

 

Hhmm,
I wonder if this has ANYTHING to do with the ACLU suing the Oregon school system for allowing scouts to recruit and winning 100k.

Under the guise of Religious Descrimination....by athiest,..no doubt,... go figure...

So are we now to say that any troop that is sponsered by an Episcopal Church HAS to accept boys who attend methodist services...
or in this situation...an athiest being harrassed by those "God believers"..

Is a law suit to follow ?
hhhmm?

 

Hi BB,
I was searching for a follow-up to the article about the previous mentioned boy and came across a lawsuit about discrimination about a school system allowing the boy scouts to speak to the school children during school hours.
The aclu sued the school system because some parents knew about scout policies about barring athiests...so there..and they actually won.

http://www.positiveatheism.com/writ/scoutaclu.htm

The JOKE about the episcopal and methodist was paradoxical..nothing disrespectful...

my scout troop was sponsered by a methodist church. (which i contributed 1000 hrs of service to, 30 years ago)

The aclu tried discrimination of scouts against gays and lost.
Will they try the athiest against the scouts now?..

Proving Once again that athiesm is a religion

and...

Follow the money...

Me2

[ November 01, 2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

All that proved that atheism is a religion . . . how? I don't see it. Nor did I see anything about money. Three mentions of the word "settlement," but no word on what the requested settlement was to be.

 

Hi stubbornkelly,

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/715714/posts

Follow the money
(People are greedy; work is hard; other people have money; Sue them)

Money talks, people walk...right over the cliffs of greed

As in the scout previously mentioned in thread.......
No respectful scout would have caused such displeasure among so many involved without strong outside influences..unfortunately

Everyone follows some kind of religious practices..a belief system of ideas of identification.
Atheism believes in the non existence of God...or Humanism
We really havent defined atheism as a religion because of its non-belief. Well its simply believing in self. or nothing outside self.

Try to prove it to people in court....Thank you, ACLU

Me2

[ November 01, 2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Hangin in there BB,

Imagine a group of young boys . everytime they meet. they get together, holding their hand in the air as a pronouncement of their honor, their loyalty and bond of faith, and recite these words:

"On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty, to God and my country"
"To obey The scout law" "To help other people at all times" "To keep
myself physically fit, mentally awake and morally straight"

or a Scout... "is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent "..and knowing what each one of these statements means.!

These are some of the things these young boys kept in their hearts and minds if the wanted to be a Boy Scout...They recited these words...under their oath of honor..As did all including the scout mentioned in this ongoing thread

Hundreds of Times...Even up To Thousands..Can you Imagine that this young man doubted these words the first time he said them, continued to meet with the others scouts and couldnt live with himself because he thought he was lying to himself..
This is over a course of MANY YEARS......

or simply to recite the pledge of allegance which these young boys did also EVERY TIME they met for their meetings...Even camping trips..oaths, pledges, and pronouncements of faith was the motivating factor behind these boys. They learned by action. they lived their faiths before each other and their communities. They believed in their words as their bonds.

You keep bringing up this young mans right to believe in atheism,. I Agree, he Certainly does has that right.....But To consider that throughout all the years of participation from day one...He Lies to even be "accepted" as a Scout.....He lies to himself, and everyone in his Life for years, if after all the experiences of his life in the scouting program..He now admits that His Staunch Belief in Athiesm is under attack from these Wacko's that Believe in "a" God.

and That Now They Should Accept Him and His Beliefs......AS A LIAR...(HHMM..SORRY)
I MEAN AS A LEADER ????

Whats being attacked is the compassion and generousity of the men that taught this young man to be respectful and honest. Their entire motivation was to see this young man become independent and a productive citizen in their community.

So what did they get after their labors ?

a lecture from an 19 year old athiest or even worse....a Lawsuit....?

Me2

[ November 01, 2002, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

Hi BB,

I started responding to this thread with a desire to understand what I thought was isolated moments of rebellion..ie gays and athiests. (not that the children shouldnt have a place to meet and standards to follow).

But after searching the web concerning these issues..aclu and bsa and secular humanism in our world..Ive come to find situations that im seriously disturbed as Im finding trends that are developing...even to the point of upsurping the growth of the majority of standards of teaching "normal" children values that promote "proper standards and lifestyle choices".

Of course this situation is secular and involves groups of people..The standards are becoming stretched beyond my acceptability level. That however the disagreement begins with the individuals..probably via the parents views...that the systematic destruction of standards are at play...(more likely than not, in the situation in this thread with the young scout.)

As I have no children to be concerned, this study has been only fact finding as well as saddening of why people cant learn to be individuals that respect one anothers choices and privacy. My final determinations are that this is a beginning of an end.

So heres a little something to leave as I say farewell to this subject...

http://www.inclusivescouting.net/scouts-honor/

and as with all other conversations, I respect and appreciate your insight..

Me2

 

We have reached the third page and it seems nothing else news worthy can be said so as of 10pm tonight I will close it down. Please make any last minute words prior to 10.
Thanks
Murph

 

It's closing time, thanks to all of you for your views. The closing is not an indication of a problem only an effort to keep the news here fresh. Sorry I didn't wait until 10 but I am so sleepy
Murph